I'm.........smokin'.....

[slow rider]

I've got a nasty blue smoke comming out the tailpipe on my 84' 110 (a 4-stroke). The plug is getting black fouling on it. If I run the engine hot and then quickly pull the plug it looks black and kind of wet. The black soot wipes easily off onto a shop rag. I need help with a diagnosis. I've done a search and read some posts on this issue. I've learned from you guys that this could be leaking piston rings or too rich of a fuel mixture from the carb., right? How do I find out which it is? How do I fix it?

[Fuzzy]

Well first off if the smoke is blue it is oil burning. When they run rich on fuel they burn black. Secound is to find out were the oil is getting into the cylinder. More then likely it is the rings. If you have a compression gauge you can do a compression test on it and see what the compression is. A easy way to tell if it is rings. Is to do the compression test and mark down what the psi is. And then give it a couple of squirts of oil down the spark plug hole and then do another compression test. It the compression comes up quite a bit. Then you know that the rings arnt sealing. And it is time for a new ring set. If the oil dosnt increase compression. Then the problem might be in the head. Like a bad valve seal leaking oil into the cylinder. Ring sets are only around $20.00 and the top end gasket set is around$15.00 i think. But the first place to start would be the compression test.

[slow rider]

Thanks fuzzy. The trike seems to run good and does not "bog down". I was hoping it was a fuel problem but the exaust smoke is definetly blue. I can handle the smoke but with the plugs fouling so badly I won't be able to ride it very long before I loose spark.

Unfortunitly I don't have a compression guage.

I've never redone piston rings or valve seals before. Do I have to remove the whole engine to do it? Can a first time triker like myself do a job like this? All I have for a helper will be you guys and my clymer book.

[YamaChuck]

If you order a top end kit from Veserah(something you can find in a Dennis Kirk catalog) you will get the valve seals as part of the kit. All you'll need is the rings. Cam chain is something you should look at also while your broken down to that point. I would think that your Clymer will give the details needed to do this.

[dads]

Before you start read the clymer on what you need to do . If you don't under stand some thing just ask . that way you will have a good idea before you get started. :thumbsup: Because you will have more question as you get into it.:D

[slow rider]

Thanks for the advice. I checked out dennis kirk. I live about 30 mi from the store! I can get a top-end gasket kit for 11.99 and piston ring set for 20.00.

Do I need to remove the whole engine to do this job? I read Clymer and it tells me I don't but when I look at the machine it looks like the head is a tight fit. I think I'm going to give this a go. My first top-end rebuild.

Also, how do I know if the cylnder is true? I don't have any of those fancy micometer measuring tools like they show in the book. I live in the sticks and have no machine shop near-by.

[dads]

You can't check it with out them. BUT you can check cylinder wear , put a new ring in the cyl. take the piston (with no rings on it ) push the ring a little to square it up feller guage the gap. At 1/4 to 1/2 inch from bottom of cyl. (were the rings do not reach, will be the cyl. size new or dam close) push up 1/2 inch at a time and guage. the most wear is at the bottom of the stroke. it will not tell if cyl is out of round but it tells wear.:D

[Fuzzy]

It should be a piece of cake. Just put all your parts into a coffie can or something so you dont lose anything. And just follow the manual.

And i wouldnt recommend doing the valve guides. Unless you have the equipment to do it and the know how. Because most of them are pressed in. And after you clean up the valves you have to relap them when you put them back in. And most of the time if it is valve seals. They will smoke at startup and then let up to allmost no smoke at all when the engine is warmed up. But rings will smoke all the time. I would try just pulling the top end of the engine off getting ahold of some emery cloth(real fine sand paper stuff) And scruffing up the whole inside of the cylinder with the emery cloth. And then putting your new rings back on the piston and putting the top end back on. Unless you want to spend all the cash on having the head done and all????. But i would try it like that. And if you have to take it apart again to get the head worked on. You are only out the $11.99 for another top end set at dennis kirk.

[slow rider]

Fuzzy, dads, et.al. Are the "valve guides" the same as the "valve guide seals"? The top end gasket set comes with "valve guide seals".

Are you saying I should forget about the valve guides and seals altogether and just change the piston rings?

sorry if this is a dumb question but like i said I've never worked on a top-end before.

Also, do the gaskets need some type of liquid gasket seal put on them before being installed? clymer said nothing about this.

[dads]

No its not dumb... better to be safe than sorry... The rubber seals you change , the guides a shop changes with a press.... (( Head gasket , NO Never )) others only if the gasket sirface looks like the gasket may not seal. ( screw driver dent marks from other people be for you or bad cuts from tring to scrape the old gasket off. Some people put it on if it needs it or not... So it's your choice.

[Fuzzy]

Yep i agree newer a sealant on the head gasket. But you might need some rtv silicone for the valve cover.

And yes i know the kit comes with valve seals. But you have to pull the valves out of the head to do it. Which requires a valve spring compresser. And then the valves and seat shouls be reconditions. And then you would need to relap the valves when you put them in to get them to reseat. So i wouldnt recommend it if you havent done it before or dont have a angel grinder to resurface the valves. And the chances are that the guides are not causing the smoking problem. But if you want to take the head to a shop to be done. That would be great by its going to be a little spendy.

So i would just go with the rings and see what you got.

[dads]

Well I would do it, but I have all the tools to do it with so Fuzzy is right you may not wont too spend the money for a spring compresser. but if you can rent or barrow one. the rowtateing tool and compound cost less than 10.

Ps . I can even change the seal with out pulling the head:D

[Fuzzy]

Dads do you just bring the piston up to the top and then let the valve slide down on top of the piston so it dosnt fall in?

[dads]

:nono: don't even try that or you may be pulling the head. I have a seup that screws in the plug hole that i hook air to . put piston to bottom of fire strock , charge cyl. with psi a little over compresion rasheo to holed valves closed (a car requires 100+) then with a top spring compresser compress springs remove ceepers an spring replace seal put back to gether disconect air and your on the road again.:thumbsup:

[Fuzzy]

SWEET!!!!!:headbang: . Great tip.

[dads]

No prob , when your a teck you know all the fun tricks. :thumbsup: