ok I would like to research some performance

[jenndnn3]

I have been reading your threads And would like to know some things....Please give me complete answers if you can, not "it will be faster". Also like to get an idea of cost involved.
These are on a 86 200x.....
.
Clutch kit: Exactly where can you get one and what does it do for you?
A flat side carb: What do they do for you, Can you get one for my model, where do I look?
Better Cam: what do you all mean by that"??
Piston: I am not so sure I want to get involved with this one, But you have to resleeve correct? If i am on wrong track please correct me.
Sprockets: I got that but I always get it backwards:doh: bigger means what.....smaller means what??This question is for clarity I never remember very well.
On each of these questions if you can how much more speed will it add or how much hp.
I will start with this.. Thx Jen

[Fuzzy]

Boy you dont ask for much LOL.

Ok here we go.

Clutch kit= Better grab and less slippage then the stock clutch plates. No power or speed increase at all. But it helps if you are going to get radical with the motor and go with like a 12-1 piston and are having a problem with the stock plates slipping.

Flat side carb=They are more responsive then the stock carb. And can be fine tunned to get every bit of power out f the engine. They can add a couple more horse and maybe a few more mph over a stock carb. But if you rejet and fine tune your stock carb it wount make that much difference and not worth the big money they ask for a flat side. And yes you should be able to get one for the 200x if you want one.

Better cam=Buying a after market camshaft. You can buy different cams depending on your kind of riding. They have ones that will increase your low end torque or ones that will add a lot more horse power. But the cam you buy should be fitted to your engine. Like weither it is running stock compression or has been bored out and running a high compression piston. In my opinion there is no better mod to do to your engine then a cam. It can be changed in around 30 minutes and dosnt require getting into the cyl and piston at all. And on the older 200x`s you could change the cam without even pulling the engine out of the frame. I am not sure if there is enough room on the newer 200x to do it or not.

Piston=Most of the time when you are changing pistons you are going to go up in size slightly. Like .010 or .020 over. What they do is bore out your cylinder slightly to make sure the cyl in round and dosnt have any ridges where the old rings were rubbing up against the cylinder walls. You can go all the way up to .080 over on a 200x. The reason people have to resleeve is that they get carried away and take a stock cylinder and bore it out to .080 over to get more compression. And when they score(melt down) there piston then there is nothing they can do with the cylinder because it cant be bored out any more. So they have to buy a new sleeve and go back to stock bore. Or have the new one bored back out to .080 over again. If a engine is taken care properly and rings replaced before the engine siezes up you should never have to resleeve a cylinder.

Sprockets=The easiest way to think about the sprockets is like the ones on a 10-speed bike. When you want to pedal easy and climb a hill you put it in first and you have a little sprocket in the front turning a big sprocket in the rear. Meaning the front one has to go around many times before the back one makes one turn around. As you want to go faster you change gears and put it in 5th meaning that you have about the same size sprocket in the front turning the same size sprocket in the rear. And if you want to go faster yet. You put it in 10th meaning you got a big sprocket in the front turning a small sprocket in the rear. So every time your pedals go around the sprocket in the rear has turned around several times giving you more speed. So like on a 200x you have a 12-tooth front sprocket and a 40-tooth rear sprocket. If you want more power you need the front to turn faster then the rear. So you could go down to a 11-tooth up front or go bigger in the rear up to like a 42-tooth. But by getting more power you loose top speed. If you want more speed then you would have to get the front to turn slower like going up to a 13-tooth or decreaing the size of the rear to like a 38-tooth. Masking the back one turn a little faster.I hope that made sence.

[jenndnn3]

Sorry hope your fingers are not sore......I just hate half:booty: answers saves on future questions later. Ok Everything makes great sense......Gives me directions on where to go from here.
on the cam How much increase overall can you add to the stock..would it be better to put new piston in or go with the stock? Would I see a significant increase then with just a stocker? I hope my questions are making sense

[Ed Grimly]

The other reason you may need to sleeve a cylinder is some manufacturers put a coating on thier cylinders that can not be bored. So once the cylinder has worn to the point of needs to go the next size, there is no next size since you cannot bore it. Many Kawasakis are like this. My KDX is like that. I thought the Tecate was like that but I do not own one so have not experienced it yet (maybe I will own one tonight though hehehe..)

BUT still in 90% of applications you can "bore out" the cyl and make it larger to fit the next size up piston.

The thing that bugs me is the guy who advertises his 1 or 2 year old atv for sale, and it says "Big Bore kit" or Bored 40 over. This means he has sacrificed his cylinder for a small power gain. So when he wears out his cyl (due to lack of air cleaning cause he took off his air cleaner for more power) he (or the unsuspecting customer) will get the honor of buying a whole new (or good used) cylinder. Sometimes you can sleeve it at this point but a lot of times the cyl is now worn past the point of sleeving.

Anyway... I like stock. :thumbsup:

Fuzzy did a wonderful job of explaining it.
Wonder if we should preserve it on a spot on the web site .... Good info ! :D

[MR ATC]

lets try this again (stupid web site not responding crap)

i would like to add to and correct a few things:

clutch kits: nothing is better then O.E.M. Honda when it comes to friction plates even barnett will admit to this what a clutch kit dose offer is H.D. springs which are required on built motors to handle the extra power

flat side carb: the biggest reason people change there carbs is to go bigger in size and while your at it you might as well get a flat side for the reasons fuzzy mentioned

cams: the reason to change a cam is to change the powercharecteristics of your motor, do you want top end power, mid range or all around power, or low end power? also when you change cams it is useually necesary to go with H.D. valve springs to handle the extra lift

pistons: in addition to what fuzzy said people change pistons for more displacement (big bore) or for higher compression

sprockets: smaller rear means more speed larger rear means more power, smaller front means more power larger front means more speed nothing will change your trikes charecteristics as much as gearing will

finally building a hi performance or bigger 4 stroke motor is a step by step procese with a certain order of things to get the best performance for your money most high lift cams will not work as good unless they are teamed with a high compression piston the best way to build a 4 stroke motor is in this order: pipe,carb,piston,cam,porting,clutch, or as i like to say P,C,P,C,P,C, what you should do is figure out what kind of gains you are looking for and how much money you have to spend then i/we/you can decide were to best spend it

[jenndnn3]

ok lets see if i can say this correctly.....I don't think I need more speed...Just more power. This would be lowend (I think) I am not trying to drag race so top out speed is not what i want to accomplish. This would be for hill pullin . I don't want to loose it at the last foot or so. (Please don't say bigger bike just yet I am not quite ready to give up on my baby.)
Clarity real quick on the sprockets does that mean if I chose speed I give up power...or the otherway around, In other words I have to pick one or the other option? Also if i get more hp in cam and piston then could I achieve the speed out of the sprockets. Or would this just counter-react to each other?
.
I am sorry But that is why I was askin the questions to figure out which way I wanna go. OR if I need to do it all.

P.S If I am gonna put money into this I want to achieve the best overall performance I can without sacrificing My engine. I do not want to do one thing and leave out the other.

[az350x]

I'd say start with gearing. It's an easy, reversible, fairly inexpensive change, and you can experiment with it and find what you like. If you're not a racer, and OEM-type sprockets (which last a long time) are ok for you, then you can get them pretty cheap. The stock gearing on 83-5 200x's is a 12 tooth front and 40 tooth rear sprocket. You're probably not going to be able to vary the size of the front by more than +/- 1 tooth or so, but it can make quite a difference. The rear sprockets are a little more diverse, but it's combinations of the two that you can play with quite a bit. I'd start with the rear sprocket, and maybe go down one or two teeth. That will give you more low and midrange power. With gearing, however, if you change it to improve one end of the spectrum, you ARE going to sacrifice some at the other end of the spectrum. Another nice thing about gearing changes is that they don't adversely affect the reliability of your bike, which most engine mods will do to some degree, depending on what you do.

Front sprocket:
Smaller= higher top speed, slower off the line, less hill-pulling power
Bigger= lower top speed, quicker off the line, more hill-pulling power


Rear sprocket:
Smaller= lower top speed, quicker off the line, more hill-pulling power
Bigger= higher top speed, slower off the line, less hill-pulling power

So, if you can find the gearing you like, you'll avoid messing with the integrity of your VERY RELIABLE STOCK HONDA motor, and spend a LOT LESS $$$ in the long run. If you're obsessed with having the fastest 200x on the planet, you'd better have a good mechanic and a lot of moo-la.

Good luck!

[jenndnn3]

These Are fantastic answers I appreciate very much the responses. Ok so far, for sure I want to change sprockets.
I am going to rebuild my carb. New seals and whatnots. But I am still very curious about the cams. Can I just do that without the piston change? OR is it not worth it? Is there a websight of who sells them? If I do it will it effect the reliability of the engine? Thx

[ATCRYDER]

stock gearing is 13 front and 38 rear on he 86/87's by the way Jenn.

[MR ATC]

AZ350X you've got it backwards

smaller rear = more speed
larger rear=more power

smaller front=more power
larger front=more speed

jen you can put a cam in without a piston change you just won't get all the benefits that the cam was designed for

can you name how much money you have to spend??? now i now what your looking for it helps but when you build a motor the first thing you need to do is set a buget

[jenndnn3]

I haven't thought of a budget yet.. I do know About 25ea for carb rebuild, sprockets, and other ticky tacky stuff. I am thinkin about $100 for piston (If I put one in, not so hot on the idea) and Have no clue how much cam cost. The only info I can find is thru payroll on that.
TY 200xryder I really need to get a manuel for the 200x that will be my first purchase.
I would like easly changed items that I could put back if neccessary. piston will blow that theory out of the water.

[ATCRYDER]

Jenn: SOme1 on ebay sells a bunch of rebuild kits, the guy has em for 14.99 ea and he has em for 86/87's

Rob

[Mr. Kasey]

compression is horsepower!! plain and simple, 10 to 1 is not to wild or to hard to start either . .............. if your tryin to build something to get out of those sand holes sorry a 200x just dosen't have the rpm range to do it!! that is why they call them two stroke holes,,,,, you need alot more tire speed than a 200x is capable of,,, and when you start winding a 200x up that much stock or not its gonna let you down ,,,

[250rAL]

Honda used to sell a complete setup for people that wanted more power out of their 200X's. It was called the 350X and it was as reliable as stock.

[jenndnn3]

No Im not tryin to build this to take 2stroke holes I am not that stupid.....that was a simple mistake I made in turning the wrong way. I had no clue i was gonna ride into that. I never meant to get into that mess. that was a big oooopppppsssssssss. Hell at that time I wished I had an auto clutch. I will buy a 250r Kasey just give me time.

250ral I already have the friggen 350x. I just want to pep my 200x up a touch. Not extreme Just a touch. I am tryin to figure out right now with this thread what is best. Or even if it worth it.

Ty again 200xryder I am watchin the keyster kit right now.

[Fuzzy]

Jenn if it aint broke dont fix it. As far as motor work goes. It is very spendy for what you get. If you got a good running motor and it isnt smoking or looseing power i wouldnt mess with it. The simple answer to your questions is the gearing. I switch mine back and forth between a 11-tooth and a 12=tooth front sprocket. The difference is with the 11-tooth i can spin the tires easier and climb hills better. And i give up about 5mph on the topend no biggy. If that still inst enough power for you. Replace your rear with a (42-tooth 83-85)(40-tooth 86-87) If that still isnt enought power then throw out your stock 22" rear tires and mount a set of 20" on there. And if that still isnt enough for you. Then you should look at the motor mods. But i guarantee if you do these mods you wont beleive it is the same trike.

[MR ATC]

Jendnn, when i say budget i mean like this if some one comes to me and say's i have this amount X dollors i say this is would do. so if you said to me "i want to build my 200X with a little more power but also be reliable and use it for all around use and i only have 500.00 to spend on parts' this is what i would recomend;

UNI air filter: 20.00
COBRA pipe with quite core (not as loud as a normal cobra and gives good midrange power) : 150.00
26mm carb :100.00
10:1 i comp piston (bore and gaskits) 140.00
H.D. clutch springs 25.00

and save the balance untill you can afford the
mild cam:100.00
h.d. valve springs 60.00
polish and clean up ports (not a full port job) 80.00

[markb]

keep in mind that most replacement carbs are spigot mount and you'll probably have tough time finding a manifold that will mate to it. i had quite a bit done to my motor before i replaced the carb iwas up to a 118 main and it wasn't rich. when i did put the 30mm on, it made an incredible difference and made first gear worthless but the stock carb handled the 12:1,k&n, supertrapp combo real well with just a jet change but i'm in CT and there's not alot of top end runs here. i don't know if most people have actually done a carb swap since i don't see them telling you about the manifold problem and i had to have a custom throttle cable made because the stock one is too short. the other problem with changing carbs is mating the inlet bell to the stock airboot, that can be a trick in itself since most have a much larger dia. if you never get it wet you can use a clamp on k&n.
mark:D

[jenndnn3]

Thanx guys these are all things to look at.

Already own the cobra pipe with quiet core.....needs to be repainted. $10.:D
I need to rebuild my carb. $17-20
I also need to really badly rebuild my forks.?
I am gonna buy the sprockets I just needed to check the which way. $9front 20Rear I want to start in front 12 tooth 11 tooth.
Oh yeah could prob use a new chain.
Thats where I will start. this isn't on a budget but based on advice. IF I still not happy Kasey you win.

You could clarify somethin up for me tho..I was looking into wiseco websights reading the stuff. When I checked into pistons for my bike it gave me a code. The code says this..."Original Barrel has cast iron liner. Cylinder must be bored to accept new sleeve. Liner will not be completly removed. Sleeve is designed to insert into iron lined cylinder." umm I stupid but what does this mean?

P.s I forgot to mention I am loosing my kickstart,,how do i say it one min it wants to just fall down next it is real stiff won't budge. but it is sparadic, doesn't do it all the time. This is what started this whole thing. This is getting worse. With an occasional bog in second gear. This happens when its cold or has been sitting to long, yes I turn off my gas. I figure while I am in there, what else can I do.

[az350x]

Originally posted by MR ATC
AZ350X you've got it backwards

smaller rear = more speed
larger rear=more power

smaller front=more power
larger front=more speed

jen you can put a cam in without a piston change you just won't get all the benefits that the cam was designed for

can you name how much money you have to spend??? now i now what your looking for it helps but when you build a motor the first thing you need to do is set a buget

You're right man, I had a brain fart. My fingers sometimes move faster than my brain!

[jenndnn3]

Mr Atc hows my budget so far???

$15.00:Exhaust system painted....paint, new toys, paper and other goodies for the air tool. The cobra was rusting.
$20.00 New carb kit
Free: Swiped the hubby's sprockets. Shhh don't tell him. Went to 12 Front
$5.00 While I had everything apart I went ahead and repainted a few other stuff that was needed.
$9.00 New Forks seals.
I know not all this is performance more facelift but.....

[Dirtsquirt]

Mr ATC: Changing sprockets won't alter the power chars. of the motor. what it started with is what it started with no matter if you have a 14/34 or 12/40 combo

What a smaller countershaft or larger rear sprocket do is allow you to accelerate faster, kinda like 4wd Lo and 4wd Hi on trucks, one is obviously better suited for climbing from the start of the hill than the other.


Jenn, toss some paddles on your 200x and you shouldn't have much of a problem climbing out the the mellow "idiot" holes. Just don't go attempting "Lost Goat' or any of the big bike climbs and you will be ok.

-Dirtsquirt

[MR ATC]

well i have to disagree on that because if you don't consider quicker acceleration or faster top speed changing your charecteristics then i don't know what you do. when i hill climb i change to a 12t front sprocket this allows me to pll most steep hills in 3rd wereas with stock 13 i may have to shift 3/4 the way up to me that is a charectoristic change or when i change to a 38 to gain some more top speed so i'm not winding out my motor as much that to seems like a charectoristic change. also i worked asa mechanic on a pro dirt track race team and we carried over 25 different sprockets so we could alter how the power came on for each track again changing the chaectoristics of the motor.