Honda 200 Misfire problem, please help!!!

[HondaYamaha rider]

I have a Honda ATC200. It has the CDI system in it. After I got it home and got it to run it has allways misfired around 4,000 RPM. At that RPM, it will miss and buck and just about shut off. Also reacently, it goes throu a spark plug every week or so (what I mean is it runs good for a hour riding, then I shut it off for acouple min. to move some logs, and then when I go to start it back up, it won't start up untill you clean/change the plug. It will do it every week, like clockwork). The best plug I've had in it was a Champion, which lasted two and a half weeks, then it needed cleaned. That is the Sysptoms. These are my questions,

1. Is there something common that goes bad with these ing. systems? (like Spark plug wire, coil, pickup, wiring?)

2. It has good spark, around 3/16 of firing range, so why does it foul the plug?

Just some questions I had. If any one can point me in the right direction on solving this problem, PLEASE POST!!!

Thanks

HondaYamaha rider

[jenndnn3]

There actually could be several things going on... I am keying off the fouled plug...

Compression, When a engine is under a load, you will feel this more...


gas flow, Possibility of based on description either to large of a jet or too small Small not likely due to plug drowning.

and spark...

To check spark you need one the electric reader thingy's (sorry brain is not functioning on name memory, ya I know pathetic since I really do know how to use them) If you have a secondary trike you can simply swap electrical parts to see which ones are bad...Just need same trike. When checking electric I work from the stator on down the line.. I have seen exciter coils go bad... not so much cdi's but others have, Sure hate for you start forking all the money for elctric parts to have it be something else. They get expensive so try swapping first.

[HondaYamaha rider]

There actually could be several things going on... I am keying off the fouled plug...

Compression, When a engine is under a load, you will feel this more...


gas flow, Possibility of based on description either to large of a jet or too small Small not likely due to plug drowning.

and spark...

To check spark you need one the electric reader thingy's (sorry brain is not functioning on name memory, ya I know pathetic since I really do know how to use them) If you have a secondary trike you can simply swap electrical parts to see which ones are bad...Just need same trike. When checking electric I work from the stator on down the line.. I have seen exciter coils go bad... not so much cdi's but others have, Sure hate for you start forking all the money for elctric parts to have it be something else. They get expensive so try swapping first.

Hello. Thanks for the post:thumbsup:

Commpresion is good, it was just rebuilt around a three years or so ago by a proficianal engine builder. Did a commpression test and a leak down test and they both came back good. The leak down was 1/2 a PSI, and the compression test was around 150 PSI of cranking pressure.

It might be gas flow, but it is a stock carb, with stock jets (as far as I know, If someone could post origial jet sizes, I could tell then for shure if they are stock jets).

Still thinking spark, like coil or exiter coil, it did stay outside in the rain and the snow, for at least 2 years before I bought it. So that might have something to do with it.

It runs, but still 4,000RPM is the magic RPM for it to start to miss and buck.

All input is NEEDED:thumbsup:

Thanks:thumbsup:

PS> Thanks jenndnn3 for the help. Don't have another parts trike, so will have to see what the problem is without spare parts.
Also that thing you were talking about is a Volt meter, and I have one, just don't know the readings to look for.

Thanks again:thumbsup:

HondaYamaha rider

[jenndnn3]

http://www.3wheeler.org/vb/showthread.php?t=26879&highlight=ohms+200
http://www.3wheeler.org/vb/showthread.php?t=7791&highlight=ohms+200

A couple of posts on the subject... And thank you for the correction on my brain fart!

PS I searched useing key words Ohms and 200
http://www.3wheeler.org/vb/search.php?searchid=61662

[HondaYamaha rider]

Just printing out the threads so I'll read them tonight and see tomaro if my electrical system is running right.

Went on a trail ride this afternoon and found another symtom that might help in diagosing this problem.
When it is cold, 4,152 RPM (checked with a digatal tach) it will miss and buck, but when it is wormed up (1/2hr to 1hr) It straightens up and runs fine, and will rev up untill I don't have the guts to hold on the throttle (don't want to blow it up you know:D ) Anyway just thought I'd throw that in.

Thanks for all the help so far:thumbsup:

HondaYamaha rider

[kasey200x]

i had a dirt bike which did the same thing, get warm then stop firing. come to find the coil was bad, so im assuming thats possibly what it is

[HondaYamaha rider]

i had a dirt bike which did the same thing, get warm then stop firing. come to find the coil was bad, so im assuming thats possibly what it is
Did you read my last post?


When it is cold, 4,152 RPM (checked with a digatal tach) it will miss and buck, but when it is wormed up (1/2hr to 1hr) It straightens up and runs fine, and will rev up untill I don't have the guts to hold on the throttle (don't want to blow it up you know :D )

Thanks jenndenn3, Those specks (on resistance) was exactly what I needed. This afternoon, I'll start testing things and see what my problem is.

Thanks again :thumbsup:

HondaYamaha rider

PS> kasey200x, dirtbikes and trikes arn't the same thing (not to be mean or anything) but I also don't assume anything ether, I test stuff and try to find the problem throu testing, not assumptions. Assumptions can be costly, defantly if you put hundereds of dollers in ignition parts and the problem was a $10 kill switch. So don't assume that a part is bad, but test it to see if that part is your problem.

[jenndnn3]

Very good luck! Glad those will help ya..
If you find nothing, come back and we will start from scratch...

[kasey200x]

oh i seemed to have missed it, sorry about that man.

[Steve]

hey there i've got an 84' honda 200ES and its pretty much doing the same problem. When the trike is cold and you rev it up it appears to sound like a "misfire" and it does that through every gear. However once i drive it around the barn a few times it doesn't do this "misfire" until higher revs. But it does it every time i fire it up. Now I do have a 125M and i've tried switching the coil, and the spark plug. Just in an attempt of curing the problem but it stays the same either way. Now after reading this whole topic im still kind of at a loss with where to start. Im not sure if its electrical or the carb? Cause either or wouldn't surprise me. The guy i bought it off claimed " their dealer couldn't even fix the problem of lacking power " haha but i've got a little more faith in these 3 wheelers then that. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated or steps to check through. Thanks in advance to any help.

[HondaYamaha rider]

Just wanted to give you guys (and gals) an update on the misfire problem.
IT IS DRIVING ME NUTS:doh: :bash: :fire: :doh: :bash: :fire:
Everything checked out. I've got a Champion plug in it know and it has stoped fouling the plug. It it the weirdest trike I've owned. After you warm it up (5 or 10 minutes), It runs like a million bucks, but untill then it just doesn't rev. up like it is susposed to. Anyway, I am going to keep trying untill I find the problem. Thanks for all the help everyone.

HondaYamaha rider

PS> Steve, If you find it PM me, just would save me the Headakes:thumbsup:
and if I find it, I'll Post it on here and PM you. Thanks:thumbsup:

[jenndnn3]

You may simply have just a cold blooded trike! If it runs great after warm up that is simply it..

But what gets me is this
Also reacently, it goes throu a spark plug every week or so (what I mean is it runs good for a hour riding, then I shut it off for acouple min. to move some logs, and then when I go to start it back up, it won't start up untill you clean/change the plug.

Another thing, when shut off.. Do you turn your gas off or leave it on? and in that 2-5 minutes, how wet is the plug while shut off and you doing other things? Try this cheap experiment, next time shut your fuel off and see what happens. Your carb may be over flowing just enough to rightly piss you off... If this is indeed true then your carb is feeding you way too much fuel... this in turn sometimes mimics not enough fuel.. (float issue)

Also have you checked timing and valves, they set good? You may have the three biggies air, gas and fire, but are they insinc? That goes to both you and Steve.

Backfireing is a major clue to lean on.. Is it backfiring through carb? (timing) or exhaust (fuel)?

As with anything just some opinion on where to look not anything specific that may or may not be wrong with your trike!

Steve Welcome to the board!

[keithluneau]

You may also want to check the springs on the timing advance, on the end of the cam by the hall effect sensor. If they are stretched or broken it'll play hell on ignition timing.

[Steve]

thanks for the welcome! this board is amazing!
It is backfiring through the carb now that you mention it. I have put on a brand new spark advance. Are there any recommendations for setting the timing on these machines?

[HondaYamaha rider]

Another thing, when shut off.. Do you turn your gas off or leave it on? and in that 2-5 minutes, how wet is the plug while shut off and you doing other things? Try this cheap experiment, next time shut your fuel off and see what happens. Your carb may be over flowing just enough to rightly piss you off... If this is indeed true then your carb is feeding you way too much fuel... this in turn sometimes mimics not enough fuel.. (float issue)

Also have you checked timing and valves, they set good? You may have the three biggies air, gas and fire, but are they insinc? That goes to both you and Steve.

Backfireing is a major clue to lean on.. Is it backfiring through carb? (timing) or exhaust (fuel)?

I turn the gas off when I shut it off, just for insurance:shrug:
It backfires though the exhaust. Ignition Timing is set to the F mark of the flywheel, Valves are set at 0.005", and cam timing is good.


You may simply have just a cold blooded trike! If it runs great after warm up that is simply it..

I think your right, it is just cold blooded, just because everything has checked out so far that I have tested.
Thanks for all the help, and Steve if you still need help, Just post and us trikers will help you.

Thanks again

HondaYamaha rider

[jenndnn3]

Steve, you will need a manual. You can check and see if Dammit has one for your trike online and there are often Cd's available ebay and so on... Timing is a step by step process, though not complicated, it is thorough... Manual is best served here.

Honda did you ever get/find carb specs for jets?