Honda 250R ???'s

[MONSTER X RIDER]

Thanx for all the help so far, I luv this site, You fellow Trikers Rock:headbang:

Well I finally got a ATC 250R to do my dragbike project, and now I have a few questions about some of my thoughts for the build.

1. I see most 250R's with ext. swingarms look to sit pretty high! I see a few local at the drags and they seem to sit low. I want mine to sit low but not to low, So my question is. Would a shock from a 200x thats a little shorter work and get me the ride hight Im looking for?

2. Will the 200x forks be tall enough to not bottem out on the front tire? and give me the stance Im looking for?

3. Im really looking to kill most of the comp. this year! I really want to do a CR500 engine, but I see alot of hastle in the kickstart, frame mods, and alot of people say the ballence of the engine will crack my frame, plus the pipe will be a little costly. So I have about $1,500 Im willing to dump into the engine either way. With these funds put into a great running 250R engine come close to what a CR500 will do on my trike?

Just looking to get some input! alot of you seem to be ATC pros! Ive benn riding for 15 years, and Ive had over 10 bikes and quads. I got my first ATC last year and Ive had 8 since and currenly have 4. Now Im a triker for life!

[Mr. Richard]

dumping 15 c-notes into a 250r will be fast,,,, but no where near a 500,,

[NOS_350X]

dumping 15 c-notes into a 250r will be fast,,,, but no where near a 500,,

Comon Richard,:shrug: lets test this theory of yours you gime the $ Ill build an engine and see how the out come is :lmao:

[MONSTER X RIDER]

Thats what I figured, I had a couple of trx 250s back in the day, fast but nothing special. I also know a guy with a CT 310 kit and I smoked him in the sand on a mildly built Banshee. I also had 2 CR 500's that where scary fast (89 and 92). Now that Im not into bikes or quads. I want a trike that will smoke most the comp. at the drags! Well I think you helped me make one of my final decisions on my Drag-Trike project. I may have a great running, mostly stock 250R engine for sale, and if that goes I will have a new FMF Fatty pipe and powercore muffler forsale. Anybody know about what they are worth these days? The engine starts right up and runs great. The exhaust and a barnett clutch are new just before I got it.

[NOS_350X]

Ok, well here are my experiences on my bikes, or bikes owned by CLOSE friends of mine, Now all bikes mentioned, are piped, ported, bigger carb, basicaly everything besides bore/stroke you can do.

My banshee has been beat by the 250r 3 wheeler, (badchevelleman's) Now it has only beat my banshee one day, but it was consistantly that day. Everyother time its all my Shee

For about 80-90% 450's the Shee and R have no problem with them.

Now the couple times ive had my cr500 conversion running, my shee, erics R or the 450's we got running around here cant hang with the 500. Havent raced it much too much but the only bike to beat it is a draged out 450 on nitrous.

cr500>banshee>250r

[Rex Karz]

What exactly did you to to Eric's R? I know you ported it, but in what way and did you do anything to the compression?

[3wheelergod]

I would leave the 250r motor in it LONG before I would swap it. My old 250r had 62hp with a 277cc motor. A bigger cc motor does not always mean bigger hp. A 540 sabertooth top end ($2000 or so) on a 250r with alky can hit 140hp. The most I have ever seen out of a cr 500 is high 90's, and I have seen 1 kx 500 at 102hp. ( Actually a better designed motor if you modify the powervavle) but BOTH SHAKE RATTLE AND ROLL to much to really enjoy and race hard. You have to gusset the hell out of them to get them to hold together. The zook 500 is ok but has the bad design characteristics of suzuki,:bash: poor intake (exect 87 motor) flat transfer ports and the top end thrust washers, but is counterbalanced so some people choose it, there is a builder here that has got a zook up to 700cc (or so he says :bs: ) but has still not hit 100hp.

We build some custom 250r motors with pilot or polaris sport 400 top ends that can hit 107 on alky and 91 on race gas. We also build a 460 banshee that looks like a 350 with a cool head and it will do a 102hp. These are the motors that we build the big boar pipes for (CPI).:thumbsup:

[200x_Basket]

all that may be true but the cost is through the roof.

you can buy a cr500 engnine for $800, have it ported $500, put an out of frame drag pipe, $300, sell your old stuff $800, and have $800 into a 75 HP combo that will run forever!!!!

[NOS_350X]

What exactly did you to to Eric's R? I know you ported it, but in what way and did you do anything to the compression?

The porting is almost all of it. 41.5mm carb, Esr airbox eliminator, Rad valve, and yes we jumped up the compression to keep the power down low. The porting really put the power EVERYWHERE, there isnt a dead spot except way down low. I meen im not going to say everything thats done but the exhaust port is widened, boysen ports are opened up, and transfers are well played with a littlebit, its completely diffrent. How did i decide how to port it?? well, i got some shop cyl's from a very well know engine builder, i just take there porting and make it my own. So far we havent been beat by ANY of that builders motors. Thank you Eddie Sanders, for assisting me in making my bikes faster than yours.

[Duner]

I would leave the 250r motor in it LONG before I would swap it. My old 250r had 62hp with a 277cc motor. A bigger cc motor does not always mean bigger hp. A 540 sabertooth top end ($2000 or so) on a 250r with alky can hit 140hp. The most I have ever seen out of a cr 500 is high 90's, and I have seen 1 kx 500 at 102hp. ( Actually a better designed motor if you modify the powervavle) but BOTH SHAKE RATTLE AND ROLL to much to really enjoy and race hard. You have to gusset the hell out of them to get them to hold together. The zook 500 is ok but has the bad design characteristics of suzuki,:bash: poor intake (exect 87 motor) flat transfer ports and the top end thrust washers, but is counterbalanced so some people choose it, there is a builder here that has got a zook up to 700cc (or so he says :bs: ) but has still not hit 100hp.

We build some custom 250r motors with pilot or polaris sport 400 top ends that can hit 107 on alky and 91 on race gas. We also build a 460 banshee that looks like a 350 with a cool head and it will do a 102hp. These are the motors that we build the big boar pipes for (CPI).:thumbsup:


I would agree with nearly everything said in god's comments. The 277 was on alky I am assuming.

If your building a drag only trike, you'll need a wheelie bar first and foremost. The Polanda cyclinders or probably the cheapest thing to do IMO. If your doing your own work, like port, assembly, etc, then 15 C-note's should do the trick. If your not, you'll need probably twice. Having an out of frame drag pipe for a 500 made, is quite a bit more then 300 bucks anywhere around here. Pete builds them, but it would be close to 5 bills for one.

My 370 with an inframe on gas did 70 rwhp, so alky and a drag pipe would put it close to 90 hp, and to be honest, that is a ton of power in a trike. Build gradually so you dont break your neck. Its sooooo easy to talk about going fast, but actually doing it is another!!!

[NOS_350X]

Its sooooo easy to talk about going fast, but actually doing it is another!!!

True dat,

How many people do you see on fast bikes but arnt fast becuase they cant figure out where the power actualy is. I see a ton of drag bikes try to pull through the power. Its a drag bike all the power is on top keep it WFO. :thumbsup:

[Mr. Richard]

if you have $1500 and a 20 year old 250r you will not beat a 500,,,, lets add it up,,,

big bore top end
porting work
bigger carb
new pipe =
------------------
more than $1500 you going to put it on an old bottom end ? i highly doubt it,,, more $ and if you have someone else do all the work,,, like cory said more than twice your original budget,,,


but BOTH SHAKE RATTLE AND ROLL to much to really enjoy and race hard. You have to gusset the hell out of them to get them to hold together. this is not true,,, i have an original 23 year old 250r frame thats had a cr500 in it for 6 years ,,without a single crack in it,,, and no gussets,,,

besides i highly doubt anyone would tell you exactly how much they have spent on there machine in an effort to go faster,,,,,,,,,, :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

[NOS_350X]

if you have $1500 and a 20 year old 250r you will not beat a 500,,,, lets add it up,,,

big bore top end
porting work
bigger carb
new pipe =
------------------
more than $1500 you going to put it on an old bottom end ? i highly doubt it,,, more $ and if you have someone else do all the work,,, like cory said more than twice your original budget,,,

this is not true,,, i have an original 23 year old 250r frame thats had a cr500 in it for 6 years ,,without a single crack in it,,, and no gussets,,,

besides i highly doubt anyone would tell you exactly how much they have spent on there machine in an effort to go faster,,,,,,,,,, :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Yes but kasey im a god in my own mind, i make my chit fast and spend absoutly nothing because i dont have anything. lol

and ill be honest with you, In my shee, since ive bought it, i have spend $120 on new wiesco pistons, that didnt work with my porting, the windows where to big so i put back in the worn out proX pistons. other than that nothing.

So how much do you seriously have in your 500? (pm me if you want) figure carb, porting, pipe, who knows what elce your crazy little head comes up with.

And a fyi i think with $1500 i could get a 250 real dam close to your 500. But in most cases %90 of the time with 1500 your not going to get anywhere close to a 500.

[Mr. Richard]

A 540 sabertooth top end ($2000 or so) on a 250r with alky can hit 140hp.

and it might last a half a season if you ride it more than once in a while ... you can't bolt that on anything that dosen't have top of the line components under it if you want to ride it at all... and that costs BIG MONEY,,,,

[Mr. Richard]

So how much do you seriously have in your 500? (pm me if you want) figure carb, porting, pipe, who knows what elce your crazy little head comes up with.

ok,,, just remember ,, my mind is getting old here,,, but its not much,,,

i got the motor in a canabalized insurance salvage bike,, $200
i put a rebuilt crank in it $200
i split the cases and installed a HRC wide ratio kit $150
new piston and bore job $200
porting by the guy that bored it $100
pipe by ct $300
AND these were done just to get it running not in an effort to go faster,, i am running a stock 38mm carb,, stock ignition,,, so nothing has been done in an effort to make it faster,,, so thats $1150 the rest has been cosmetic so i would say i might have $2200 in the whole thing not giving myself a dime for my time,,, and those are pretty honest numbers,,,

hell i just got my estimate back on the motor i sent out,,, its more than twice that amount,,, :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Duner]

hell i just got my estimate back on the motor i sent out,,, its more than twice that amount,,, :eek: :eek: :eek:


Which motor is this?

BTW, when I rode your 500, I can't recall any vibration, or at least not enough to catch my attention.

I think my lil ole 370 will make some 500 owners not very happy. However, to be honest, there is almost 20 hrs of port work in just the cyclinder, head, so $1500 bones wont even cover the cost of the cylinder...:eek:

[200x_Basket]

my 500 is low buck too. i have not added it all up but i have less then what Kasey has invested and it is all new :)

Now mine has not beed raced so it may be a slow dog, but i doubt it :)

[Mr. Richard]

BTW, when I rode your 500, I can't recall any vibration, or at least not enough to catch my attention.



thank you!!! :hail: :hail: :hail: only the people that don't have one or have never ridden one say they vibrate so bad you can't ride them very long,,,

[NOS_350X]

Kasey my cr500 in my quad vibrates like hell, so your trike MUST, ok end of story.

lol,
When my 500 was in a trike it didnt vibrate bad at all barely even noticeable, in the quad it isnt unbareable, its the pipe thats taking the punishment. but vibration isnt worse than a tecate. When i rode kaseys 500 it wasnt bad eather. Its a 2 stroke so yes there going to vibrate, but not even noticeable.

[wild200x]

educational thread! i am suprized at how little you can build a 500 for! so what you all are saying is build it Chases way and win but only a few races, then rebuild. build it Kasey or 200x Baskets way and get a reliable and fast trike. does this sum it up? oh and i have heard before that the 500 motors shake in the 250 quads but not the trikes to. but i cant remember the reason. and i think Chase is who told me?! Chase??

[3wheelergod]

Ok to be honest I rode a kx500 trike that didn't vibrate near as bad as the other one I rode and the alky trike you seen me make a pipe for (which is for sale go to classifieds)(honda cr500) shook pretty bad and the frame had been repaired 2 times for sure that i seen. KASEY, it sounds like you got lucky and got a well balanced motor in yours, and I'm sure you race it but how hard do you really ride it? Honestly! It looks as if it has been babied.The whoops are SO bad here racing up the hill that I have actually seen A-arms on a sandrail break because of it. (short sand cars), and have cracked frames myself (my tecate) on them! And the "polanda" motors that we build run GREAT. We have 4-5 that are on there 4th year. We have rebuild one (jetting problem). True the sabertooth built to the max will blow easier but tone it down to 110hp on 100 octane and you can ride it for years!.

And NOS 350X I AGREE with you on them stupid tecate's vibrating to hell! My pig (or so I call it) will make your feet numb, ask Ted. But......my sweetheart (1984 bone stock I'm 2nd owner) vibrates NO worse than my 250r. Honestly, it is like night and day between the 2 and I'll let you know how my new mutt motor vibrates or not (hopefully). So it may be a hit and miss with the big motors but the 250r is counterbalanced and is always pretty smooth. (I know someone will grill me for that statement!)

Now......$1500 is what we are talking about for a build..Most people cant fab there own stuff for the 500 motor and you have to buy another motor, Yes you can sell ithe old 250r motor but that dont count right now. Soo...you have to spend 1/2 or more just on your actual motor and frame mods, where if you put it in the 250r you have $1500 to actually spend on the motor its self. One good thing to keep in mind!:thumbsup:

Once you get a 500 to around 70-75hp you have to start doing the sleeve and stroke kits and then it really adds up quick. The 250r and the 500 cost about he same once you get to the 70 hp. mark to build, but I will give you that it is easier and cheaper to reach 70-75hp with a cr500 motor than a 250r.

And Ted it wasn't me......?

[Duner]

educational thread! i am suprized at how little you can build a 500 for! so what you all are saying is build it Chases way and win but only a few races, then rebuild. build it Kasey or 200x Baskets way and get a reliable and fast trike. does this sum it up? oh and i have heard before that the 500 motors shake in the 250 quads but not the trikes to. but i cant remember the reason. and i think Chase is who told me?! Chase??


Putting a 500 in a liquid quad, it's not a direct fit.

IMO, my 370 is just a 1 yr motor for me, then I will upgrade to either a trinty or a rotex hybrid next yr.

In Kasey's defence, he rides and jumps the pizz out of the 500. Other then the removing of the kick starter and playing that game, it is a sweet trike, but they dont rev for chit. Torque down low which is a strange feeling to me.

I really like the 370 as a dune motor. But if you price them, 1500 only gets you a cyclinder. You'll need much more then that. Carb, clutch, machine of the cases, etc.

Best bang for the buck IMO for the average backyard mechanic is the ESR 310 kit with a 4 or 5 mil stroker crank. Low to mid 50's horsepower on gas and no machining of the cases is needed.

[Mr. Richard]

KASEY, it sounds like you got lucky and got a well balanced motor in yours, and I'm sure you race it but how hard do you really ride it? Honestly! It looks as if it has been babied.The whoops are SO bad here racing up the hill that I have actually seen A-arms on a sandrail break because of it.

LOL NOW THATS FUNNY RIGHT THERE!!! NOT BABIED JUST TAKEN CARE OF,,, JUST ASK ALL THE PEOPLE I RIDE WITH :thumbsup:

[Duner]

LOL NOW THATS FUNNY RIGHT THERE!!! NOT BABIED JUST TAKEN CARE OF,,, JUST ASK ALL THE PEOPLE I RIDE WITH :thumbsup:


Take your caps lock off silly....

[wild200x]

has anyone that any of you know of ever tried to put a ktm 380 in an R?

[Mr. Richard]

I wish i would have saved that article a guy wrote several years ago,,,, they spent nearly $10,000 trying to make a cr500 live in a quad chassis,,, it was a very informative article too,,,, the extent to which they went was unreal,,, they did some wild things rubber mounts,, they tried UHMW mounts (plastic) they foam filled the frame the list goes on,,, the last thing they were testing was a cog belt drive counterbalancer,,, that was where they were when i read about it,,,, quad frames have no place for the vibrations to release and its the harmonics that do the damage,,, if you notice on a big bore when you hit the throttle the suspendsion colapses a little from the vibrations thats where it gets its release,,, it doesn't reverberate around causing the damage,,, :D

[Duner]

has anyone that any of you know of ever tried to put a ktm 380 in an R?


Nope, and why in the world would ya? Parts for the R's are still readily availble Ted.

[NOS_350X]

KASEY, it sounds like you got lucky and got a well balanced motor in yours, and I'm sure you race it but how hard do you really ride it?


Chase im shure Richard will be more than happy to give ya some riding lessions.:salute:

Please dont take that the wrong way, My list of top riders ive riden with is Him Brent and Eric bein in the top 4 with me numbro 1. The guy absoutly rides the piss outa the bike. At the trike rally he let a few people take a spin on it. Im shure he knows deep inside all he has to do is worry about one wrecking it because riding it hard your not going to ride it harder than he can.

Rich ive found several pages on E2S about guys doing it, I think once i get my pipe im building finished i wont have any problems. Im not having problems with the frame, vibration, or mounts, its all the pipe, Not the normal problems they have with the 500 conversions. i think my pipe is too thin of guage. if my pipe dosnet work, im pulling the engine. We will be putting a 450 in it.

Ted ive seen a bunch of big bore 2 stroke atk's huskys and ktms for sale cheap and it always crosses my mind.

[3wheelergod]

At least you could spell "lessons" correctly!:bash: :booty:

I'm glad everything you guys get runs great forever, can't be beat, and don't ever break! I wish I could have that kind of luck! As for me, I'm stuck here in the real world and I have already blown up a motor this year!

Back to the main topic of the thread though.............Sorry:doh:
Personally I would keep the 250r motor, they make literally MILLIONS of parts for them and they will be one of the very last to die, Other than the Banshee, what other 2 stroke has that kind of reputation?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

[Duner]

I have already blown up a motor this year!



Well, your 2 blown motors or burned up motors behind me for this season:ugh:

Thing about the liquid trikes is, they have 2 radiators...and they cool like a mofo. I am considering going to just one to allow for less cooling during the Winter-Fall and Spring months and using both during mid summer months.

[3wheelergod]

Well, your 2 blown motors or burned up motors behind me for this season:ugh:


:lmao: Oh its on now!!!!!!!!!:lmao: :thumbsup:

I hope I win the contest!

( My new tecate has a single 1986 kx125 radiator on it by the way) :thumbsup:

[MONSTER X RIDER]

Thanx for all the help and info!!!:hail: :hail: You fellow trikers rule!!! All this info has really made me think of my options, but I just picked up a nice 1987 CR500. Now all I need is a pipe made. Any info on who to go to or how to go about getting it done would be great. I have a ATC 250r FMF fatty pipe and a CR500 FMF fatty pipe, I know I can fab something to work, but I want a nice shinny in frame drag pipe! I will probley part out the CR500 and a few of the ATC parts to pay for the rest of my build. I just need to know who or where to go to get get the pipe I need, or have one made? Also any help on the shock length for a +9 swingarm and a 215 lb rider would ge great, I think Im going to use the Marvin Hill shooter. Any reason why or why not I should use the Marvin hill shotter? Thanx again

[Duner]

Thanx for all the help and info!!!:hail: :hail: You fellow trikers rule!!! All this info has really made me think of my options, but I just picked up a nice 1987 CR500. Now all I need is a pipe made. Any info on who to go to or how to go about getting it done would be great. I have a ATC 250r FMF fatty pipe and a CR500 FMF fatty pipe, I know I can fab something to work, but I want a nice shinny in frame drag pipe! I will probley part out the CR500 and a few of the ATC parts to pay for the rest of my build. I just need to know who or where to go to get get the pipe I need, or have one made? Also any help on the shock length for a +9 swingarm and a 215 lb rider would ge great, I think Im going to use the Marvin Hill shooter. Any reason why or why not I should use the Marvin hill shotter? Thanx again


If you have never been on a bike with a Marvin Shaw....please ride one first. All out drag, they work great, any kind of hill shooting with whoops, and you'll be feeling them.....

[Duner]

:lmao: Oh its on now!!!!!!!!!:lmao: :thumbsup:

I hope I win the contest!

( My new tecate has a single 1986 kx125 radiator on it by the way) :thumbsup:


Lol:D

[200x_Basket]

look up my 500r build post on this site. I used a cr500 fmf pipe and made it work. It take a few welds and some mandrel bent pipe for the stinger but it is not too hard. look in the pics section for my current post. that is the fmf pipe that i "worled".

[MONSTER X RIDER]

Thak you!!!!:yup:

[Mr. Richard]

I'm glad everything you guys get runs great forever, can't be beat, and don't ever break! I wish I could have that kind of luck! As for me, I'm stuck here in the real world

there is no luck involved in my case,,, a well tuned well cared for motor will run a long time ,,, i built mine from the ground up with quality parts,, regular maintance helps too,,, the biggest thing is listening to the motor it will tell you when its sick,, or dieing,,, and if you don't believe that ,,, you will continue to blow them up,,,, :D

[MONSTER X RIDER]

look up my 500r build post on this site. I used a cr500 fmf pipe and made it work. It take a few welds and some mandrel bent pipe for the stinger but it is not too hard. look in the pics section for my current post. that is the fmf pipe that i "worled".

VERY VERY NICE lookin ATC 500R!!! I hope that mine tirns out to look that good! Are you using the stock kick-start lever? What year CR500 pipe is it that you used? Also yours does not look all jacked up in the rear wtih the ext. swingarm. Are you running a 250R shock? Thanx for the help!

[200x_Basket]

look up the build post. it answers all that and more.

[MONSTER X RIDER]

Thanx!!! I do have a few more ???"s I hope to get this project done in the next month or 2! where can I find the build post?

[200x_Basket]

http://www.3wheeler.org/vb/showthread.php?t=22810&highlight=500r

[3wheelergod]

there is no luck involved in my case,,, a well tuned well cared for motor will run a long time ,,, i built mine from the ground up with quality parts,, regular maintance helps too,,, the biggest thing is listening to the motor it will tell you when its sick,, or dieing,,, and if you don't believe that ,,, you will continue to blow them up,,,, :D


:hail: :hail: The trike whisperer has spoken!:hail: :hail:

Are you serious? Ever blown a bearing? Ever done a cold sieze? Ever sucked sand? These things happen INSTANTLY, especially when you are pulling 6-9000 RPM!! You cant hear them coming, least keep this in the realm of reality please......



Nice score on the Cr500 pick up, PM me and we will talk about me buying your 250r motor! If you really need a hand with the pipe, thats what I do for a living, and would be more than willing to help!:thumbsup:

[NOS_350X]

Are you serious? Ever blown a bearing? Ever done a cold sieze? Ever sucked sand? :

I have never lost a berring that i wasnt asking for it, on my old 125 i was in the desert with a flat rear tire 6 miles from camp, i took the road, 1 mile from camp the crank berring went, BUT i was 6th gear wide open for MILES i was asking for it. Cold sieze? if its not warm dont ride easy soultion. HMM never sucked in sand eather, new filters every morning when im out duning solves that problem. In my shee i change my oil after every race/ride, and on my X after every other ride. Im anal about the maintince of the mechanical sutff on the bike. Being this way i dont have engine problems. Really if your going through engines the way you are i would be looking into finding a new engine builder.

[jadleybray]

Duner I disagree about the marvin, in a way. Now most would consider my trike allout drag. But mostly hillshooting dragracing if you know what I mean. Now where we ride, florence mostly, the whoops are right out the gate. My marvin rides stiff, like when I get on the bike, there is very little to no sag. But this does accomplish one thing, them superlites never get off the sand, all traction straight ahead hoy! My marvin probably only moves about an inch total.
Maybe partly in my riding style too though, but nevertheless, just how I like it.

[Mr. Richard]

Are you serious? Ever blown a bearing? Ever done a cold sieze? Ever sucked sand?

BEARINGS DON'T JUST GO OUT,,,THEY GET ROUGH AND NOISEY FIRST....
COLD SEIZE?? WHAT TO ANXIOUS TO GET GOING TO WARM IT UP???
SUCKED SAND,,, LOOSE CLAMPS ? LACK OF MAINTANCE ,,FALURE TO CHECK THINGS?

i have been riding and racing for over 40 years i can count all the engines i have scattered on one hand ,,,

[Mr. Richard]

Really if your going through engines the way you are i would be looking into finding a new engine builder.


nick,,, 2 of the problems he listed are self inflicted,,,, the best built motor in the world can be cold seized,, and will die quick if it gets a big gulp of sand when the aircleaner falls off,,,,,,,,, :D

[dan_badgley]

I agree with Kasey!

[3wheelergod]

First off, motor bearings dont squeek like axel bearings!:bash: They just go, my last one went in 2nd gear turning around and not even on it! Ted was there! There was no squeek it was Boom! Done! Thats it! Thats the way they work. No matter what you think!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :doh:
2nd....Anyone knows that no matter WHAT filter, however clean, new or whatever you want to say about will suck tiny particles of sand. Take your head off and run your finger around the bore, you can feel it. After time things start to wear, NO MATTER WHO YOU ARE OR WHAT YOU RIDE!!!!!!!! Vibrations cause clamps to rub on rubber boots, cause things to move, bolts to come undone, and so on. Ever had the wind blow when you were putting fuel in???????? Every changed a spark plug at the dunes? And for the record I have never had a filter pop off, Carb yes! Filter no! (at least I am honest!) Just some thoughts. Just 2 weeks ago My buddies banshee worked a bolt lose and it ended up taking his clutch side crank seal out, after running 5 years without any problems. I can still see his hone marks on his motor and it just happened, no warning! You just never know what is going to happen!
3rd Do you even know what a cold sieze is?????????It appears not!:doh: Study up!

Having your jetting off a little on the wrong day can cause you to lean out and make your piston get to hot and sieze your motor also, The raw fuel is the only thing that cools the actual piston, not the water! Skirts break off pistons all the time,with no warning. After so many heat ups and cool downs the grain of the aluminum starts to rearrange and it loses it structural integeraty and comes apart. Remember, I rebuild motors and build pipes for a living, I see new things everyday that I have never seen or even thought of before. Engines are controled explosions and after time...something is bound to go wrong! There are so many stupid little things that can go wrong.

I build my own motors thank you! I true and weld my own cranks, I bore my own cylinders, I port my own motors, I mill and rechamber my own heads. I just got a knack for it as a kid and have slowly progressed to the knowledge that I have now. I also got very lucky and found my Dream job at CPI. Tig welding and building motors for a living is the best thing that has ever happened to me! And I have over 13 atv's that I take care off and ride, I do my side work at night in my garage at night and I stay plenty busy! I have blown up the same motor 3 times in a year and I have some that are still running after many years! It matters not the builder (in most cases) but the motor its self!

My buddies banshee has a marvin shaw and he says it is awesome everywhere but the whoops!:thumbsup: (and sorry for kinda jacking this thread with my rants but some one has to tell people what happens the majority of times instead of a fairy tales)

[Duner]

This thread kinda went off the ledge.

God, I understand what your saying, and too be honest, I have experienced alot of the things you are listing. To go a bit further, I had maybe 1 of the best engine builders build my 370R. I only say he's maybe the best as his motors have dominated the past 3 yrs at Dune fest. Motor for motor, his ran faster everytime.

I burned my cylinder up a couple wks ago because of cold, then last wkend, the O ring seperated during a race. Not a big deal, just changed it out, but things happen when you make power.

I have never even met Nos, so I have no input on his motors or abilities, but Kasey's trike I believe broke something near the end of the Rampage last yr, so those saying your not having issues, I'm calling BS.

Whenever people start pizzing at each other, its usually to show their mad skillz..Let's just line in up and all the BS will stop there!

[Troll]

3wheelergod can I bother you with a question? Do two-strokes have a oil level for the engine. I believe they do.

Heres a couple of opinions and I tend to go with the first. http://www.3wheeler.org/vb/showthread.php?t=17809&highlight=oil+level+stroke

What do you think? :hail: ............................ Trikegodtroll :thumbsup:

[Mr. Richard]

you would sound more intellegent if you didn't think you were talking to a freshman auto shop class,,, i and alot of others know what a cold seize is,,, and with proper jetting and a little warm up it won't happen,,,,

[Having your jetting off a little on the wrong day can cause you to lean out and make your piston get to hot and sieze your motor also, wow well if your that close to being to lean,on jetting,and feel the need to be that lean,,, GET a EGT GUAGE its a hell of a lot cheaper than a topend,,,, you should be able to hear and FEEL IT long before a seized piston,again you have to listen to the motor,,, , if your skirts are breaking off ,,,they don't just fall off!!! long overdue for a piston ,, lose fit on a old piston,, to much clearance ,, pistons with PROPER clearance usually don't fail for no reason,,, if you followed the manufactures recomendations on pistons rings cranks and bearings ,, we could not afford to ride because we would be inside the motor all the time,,,, thats why they break,,, pistons weren't meant to last years,, so they break if you don't change them,,,

[Duner]

My buddies banshee has a marvin shaw and he says it is awesome everywhere but the whoops


That is pretty much what I said. The shaw is good, but for whoops, it will kick the living Chit out of ya.

Jay, I rode a Shee with a Shaw, and man, my azz hurt for a wk:D

[Mr. Richard]

Kasey's trike I believe broke something near the end of the Rampage last yr, so those saying your not having issues, I'm calling BS.
yeah i blew a head gasket,,, it was totally my fault too,,, you can't run anything but a good honda gasket when you have over 200 psi compression,and bored .080,, the cheap ones don't have enough sealing surface left , but my local dealer didn't have one when i freshened the top before i came up there,,, i probably could have ran up to honda that day and got one,,, but i never work on anything at the dunes,,, thats why i bring more than one ride,,,,,,

[Duner]

3wheelergod can I bother you with a question? Do two-strokes have a oil level for the engine. I believe they do.

Heres a couple of opinions and I tend to go with the first. http://www.3wheeler.org/vb/showthread.php?t=17809&highlight=oil+level+stroke

What do you think? :hail: ............................ Trikegodtroll :thumbsup:

wicked. :hail:

[Duner]

yeah i blew a head gasket,,, it was totally my fault too,,, you can't run anything but a good honda gasket when you have over 200 psi compression,and bored .080,, the cheap ones don't have enough sealing surface left , but my local dealer didn't have one when i freshened the top before i came up there,,,


O ring?

Didn't something happen to the 70 as well?

[Mr. Richard]

the 70 was just a lose wire,, :D :D

[3wheelergod]

you would sound more intellegent if you didn't think you were talking to a freshman auto shop class,,, i and alot of others know what a cold seize is,,, and with proper jetting and a little warm up it won't happen,,,,
wow well if your that close to being to lean,on jetting,and feel the need to be that lean,,, GET a EGT GUAGE its a hell of a lot cheaper than a topend,,,, you should be able to hear and FEEL IT long before a seized piston,again you have to listen to the motor,,, , if your skirts are breaking off ,,,they don't just fall off!!! long overdue for a piston ,, lose fit on a old piston,, to much clearance ,, pistons with PROPER clearance usually don't fail for no reason,,, if you followed the manufactures recomendations on pistons rings cranks and bearings ,, we could not afford to ride because we would be inside the motor all the time,,,, thats why they break,,, pistons weren't meant to last years,, so they break if you don't change them,,,

Then dont act like a freshman in auto class!!!!!!!And I'm glad you know the exact jetting everywhere you go ride as soon as you get there, Skirts break, My stupid arctic cat sled has 1561 miles and the skirt blew apart on it, hell the rings aint even seated yet! What happened to the "250r that still has its original piston because of proper maintanance" can you make up your mind please!
You really trust and EGT? Few people can actually read them proper and even fewer know what to do when you do see temp changes. Every turbo sled we send out the door has an EGT on its pipe and then it gets even harder to read then. To rich and your EGT will raise the same as to lean because the unburned fuel it actaully igniting and finishing it burn cycle in the pipe. It will actually go above 1400 some times! Then you lean it up to much and BOOM! At least one sled a week from this EXACT situation!Elevation, temp, all these things count!!Seriously some sleds have to stop and jet because they are tuned to such a fine line that you have to to get the results you are after!
Too lean and it bogs of the line! You CAN hear it gurgle in the mids and tops when it is to rich and jet accordingly. Simple start for you!

I had a lonestar rear shock on my r and it did pretty well on the whoops, But a bit soft for jumping! It was an all out drag shock without a link! I loved it, I am trying the stock tecate shock for my new creation! ( I know:doh: but I am half poor right now!)

Nice article Troll -man!! Loved every sentence!

[Duner]

the 70 was just a lose wire,, :D :D

Sweet! Sure was fun watching you rip around just before pictures and trying to "roast" people.:thumbsup:

Give us an update on the 500...You started it since the fire and if so, all okay? Just a seat and some Goof-off to remove the smoke build up?

[NOS_350X]

Take your head off and run your finger around the bore, you can feel it. After time things start to wear,

Next time where at a ride ill pull off my head on my shee for ya. Im anal with my filters, and i dont get sand. :thumbsup:

and from what i know a cold sieze is where the piston heats up faster than the cyl. Causes some big problems.

I run all my bikes on the rich side. I figure there fast enough i dont need to put them on the edge. Also this way when i go to places like oregon that has wack air its normaly still good. Ill tear appart my engine just to clean it, No biggie, rather do that then spend the money on piston bore all that chit.

Duner2- I had a R at rampage last year that was only beat by the 2 500's and one of the wizzard bikes (i think yours) on nitrous. Its a 1st overbore 250r.
If i rember right kasey quit riding the 500 becaus of a blown headgasket, so he quit riding that bike so he didnt have a costly rebuild. Something alot of people that ride could take a lesson in. We all have that story of the "one more ride on the worn out chain that ended up going through the case":chuckle: or soemthing of the sort.

[250sx]

:hail: :hail: The trike whisperer has spoken!:hail: :hail:



This is one of the best quotes EVER...Trike Whisperer :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: Keep it polite guys. :nono:

[Duner]

Duner2- I had a R at rampage last year that was only beat by the 2 500's and one of the wizzard bikes (i think yours) on nitrous. Its a 1st overbore 250r.


Nos, I removed all nitrous stuff before the Rampage. I only lost to Kasey, Rick and I were back and forth all wkend so I can't say either was faster, so I dought we raced. Post a picture of the R you brought....you bringing it this yr too? Bring your shee to, I got something to give you competion on that as well if it beats the trike.

We are also bringing a Polanda trike that Pete built. Its got an override, lock out and is on alky. Full custom drag that did 97 on LRD's dyno.

[NOS_350X]

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g285/NOS_350x/2007RiverdaleRace043.jpg

Really nothing special about the R, No swingarm, and no chrome, just ported by ME, not my bike but i made it run.

My banshee, Now its nothing special, Std bore, std stroke, Stock cyl. Dynoed at 59.8hp at the wheels. The powerband hits STRONG in the mid and dosent let off till way over the top. The R is about the same way, very easy rideable motor, but yet its super fast. My shee got beat by kasey at glamis, at oregon i raced dunerash and it wasnt even close. Other than that i didnt do much racing on the shee. Honestly the whole time at oregon i didnt see any bikes that looked too compareable to it.

This year i probably wont make it, No job= no money and i race too much to save up.

[Mr. Richard]

What happened to the "250r that still has its original piston because of proper maintanance" can you make up your mind please!

well when i bought it fron the original owner it has less than 10 tanksfuls of gas thur it,,,, and my daughter is the only one that has ridden it since i got it,,, i am sure it has less hours on that engine than i put on in 2 weekends of riding in the dunes,,, the same goes for the 350x i got from the same guy still has never been opened up since new,,,

[Duner]

Nos,

Last yr, I pretty much just got a sip of what I wanted to do. I had just a clean up stock cyclinder and bore but had the +8 so I could launch with WOT leaving in 2nd which allowed me to jump out on alot of faster bikes..this year is a little different. The trike is running really hard. We will be bringing some fast bikes this yr. Jamie will bring the rotex which won the single class at dunefest last yr (4.02) and Pete is putting the Polanda back together which is in a '86 drag chasis, so it will be fun to watch. I am considering doing either a Saber or Rotex before the Rampage which will be built by Piranha. 100 hp on gas with an inframe is possible. Also believe 1 of the R1 Raptors will be coming as well, so lots of talk bout fast bikes coming, we shall meet all of you this yr!:thumbsup:

[dovesprings250R]

Didn't read this whole thread so sorry if it was already covered. If I had $1500.00 to spend on a motor I would get a 350 powervalved set up from Ct racing. I think it goes for a bit more than that but not much more and they rip! No mods needed to the frame or exhaust. You can go back to stock if needed and really a trick set up. My only beef with the 500 coversions is the vibration and the fab work needed to get it to fit and the kickstarter issue. I rode Kasey's and liked it. It did vibrtae a lot more than a 250R but i can see how you could get used to it. i was only on it for like 5 minutes. Starting it seemed like a pain in the ass but I never stalled it so no worried there. Kasey's 500 is real nice.

[86waterpumper]

500 bikes are nice, and definately the more economical way to go about building a fast bike that will hold up, but they aren't the all out kings of power at least for dragging. Nearby we have a dirt drag and alot of people there put some serious money into their bikes, I haven't seen one 500 conversion there, they all run 250r short rod motors on alky and ported to the gills and they are plenty fast. The long rod and 500 motors are tops when it comes to torque, but don't have as much topend revs for sure.

[200x_Basket]

500 bikes are nice, and definately the more economical way to go about building a fast bike that will hold up, but they aren't the all out kings of power at least for dragging. Nearby we have a dirt drag and alot of people there put some serious money into their bikes, I haven't seen one 500 conversion there, they all run 250r short rod motors on alky and ported to the gills and they are plenty fast. The long rod and 500 motors are tops when it comes to torque, but don't have as much topend revs for sure.


have you seen this?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1987-2001-CR-500-Trike-Sand-Drags-3-Wheel-No-Banshee_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6724QQihZ005QQitemZ150236412634QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

[86waterpumper]

Nice bike. All that power and still a thumb throttle :lmao:

[KAMI-COZZI]

wicked. :hail:

amen... X2