Best W/C 250R pipe

[J.D.]

In everybodys experience what is the best pipe? I'm not talking about some super exotic custom hand-fabbed you'll never find again. Specifically I'm asking about the ESR ATC5 pipe.....because this FMF I've got just doesn't seem to give me power like I want(like Scott's 250R had).....because Scotts 250R definately has more git-up-n-go than mine has, and I've got ported cylinder+FMF and his is supposed to be stock. I kinda don't wanna shell out 269+shipping for a pipe though, maybe I'll just be a cheapskate and deal with what I've got....until I ride his again and get the itch lol.

[NOS_350X]

Ya wont be dissapointed.

[ScottZJ]

JD, I actually have this killer hand formed pipe I have been meaning to put on mine and test. It looks to be pretty nice pipe, just needs a good coat of paint.

[225]

ESR hands down.

I am getting that pipe next winter when I start my 250de restore.

[3wheelergod]

That pipe you got hanging around there looks like it should run pretty decent, it has about the same charicteristics of the rest of the good 250r pipes.

PAUL TURNER make the best high rev pipe around! BAR NONE! I will have the dyno sheet to prove it. I am making some custom pipes for poeple here in the club only! They will be the exotic one of a kind ones you said you didn't want but I am letting you know anyways. I am almost done with my 2nd prototype and things are looking good! I have a BONE STOCK 250r to test them on, and a pual turner to test against! If you want one, I will be taking orders in a month or two. I would like to get some out before summer. Just keep an eye on the CPI 250r pipe build thread in the build up garage!:thumbsup:

[ScottZJ]

Yes I have to say that the Paul Turner pipes are by far one of the best on the market. I have had them on 3 of my machines and wont ever change. I wanted to try that hand formed pipe (not sure who made it), against my PT to see the difference. But as JD said, my bike was screaming fast when it made it thru all the gargling on low end and its all stock except the PT pipe, ESR air box eliminator, and TRX LRD pipe. hehe.

http://www.fototime.com/{0D77791F-B5D6-4481-998A-0F8F450492CE}/picture.JPG

[dovesprings250R]

I've had a turner Hir rev, an esr atc 5 and now have a CT. There were things I liked and disliked on the ESR and the turner and the CT. So far the CT is my favorite for all around aggressive riding followed by esr then the turner.

[r250]

I've had a turner Hir rev, an esr atc 5 and now have a CT. There were things I liked and disliked on the ESR and the turner and the CT. So far the CT is my favorite for all around aggressive riding followed by esr then the turner.


which pulled the best down low/midrange? what mods you running?

[dovesprings250R]

The Esr had the hardest midrange pull by far. A real nasty hit that I liked. Low was ok. At the time I had the ESR pipe I had a mx ported cylinder, boyesen power reeds and a stock carb bench flowed to aprox 36mm. I was also running the ESR silencer. What I like about the ct is that the low end is real good, the mid is real nice too and the top revs pretty hard and pulls well. Doesn't have the hit of the SER or all the top end of the turner. But it has the least compromise in the powerband.

[NOS_350X]

Brent, i still feel that the lack of top on the ESR pipe would have been solved with a 38mm pwk. Bottom and mid would have had a slight loss if even noticeable but the top would have grately increased. Just a thought.

[wild200x]

i have that carb. and thought about the esr. but i get the first chrome Chase made pipe!! cant wait! complete w/dyno...hehehe
hey, good luck w/whatever you do w/yours! and let us know what you get and what ya think of it. please!

[Rex Karz]

I have the ESR piped R that used to belong to Brent. The mid is killer. Can't wait to get it on the circle track again. It would pull major wheelies in the middle of the turns.

[77charger]

I ran an fmf fatty on my trike.and also used the cr250 head gasket.BIke ran good and hard a good combo and many who rode it said it pulled hard esp midrange.

[dovesprings250R]

Brent, i still feel that the lack of top on the ESR pipe would have been solved with a 38mm pwk. Bottom and mid would have had a slight loss if even noticeable but the top would have grately increased. Just a thought.

I do have the 38 now and did with the Turner pipe as well. If we've got time I'd like to do a bit more "pipe testing" so I can maybe swap with Rex for a ride and see hoe they compare with the bigger carb. That would be fun because I would be forced to go riding in the name of research for .org:headbang:

[J.D.]

Ok then let me ask you guys this then since you're talking about all these big carbs. Is it possible since mines ported, and I've got stock carb...I'm just not getting the airflow it needs? How much can a stock carb handle?

[wild200x]

i went to a 39 mm pwk before i got a pipe (still dont have one yet) that carb realy did ALOT! it was not just noticable. its like a whole different relm! cant wait for the pipe too!

[jenndnn3]

Ok then let me ask you guys this then since you're talking about all these big carbs. Is it possible since mines ported, and I've got stock carb...I'm just not getting the airflow it needs? How much can a stock carb handle?

its like your eating your beef hearty stew through a straw... the meat aint comin through baby!


Seriously though what all you got going on? I can tell you to go throw a carb anyday of the week but only if its relevent to what you have done to your trike...

GOING bigger isnt always the answer..though on a 2stroke 250 it works more often then not!

[NOS_350X]

Stock motors love large carbs, IMO a carb is the second thing to go after a pipe. You have the FMF go to a 38mm carb if that dosent do what you want then get a pipe to suit you.

[kid curry]

250R Pipe talk

I found you need to balance everything input to output. Some bolt-on changes make a difference and sometimes can even hurt your performance across the power band.
Used to race cars and know if you increase carb size, jetting etc you must modify the engine to handle the extra air/fuel via cam lobe, timing etc and then you must allow it to breath via less restricted exhaust. Then with some time on a dyno to do the fine tuning along with an exhaust analyser CO & HC.

My 250R, in my mind and in my butt where it really counts, is dialed in with K&N to a 38mm airstriker, carbon reeds, cylinder bored .01 over ported polished, weisco piston & .01 gasket to an ESR pipe & performance O-ring flange hooked to an ESR silencer.

Side note; Removed the ESR decal and put an FMF decal on the silencer because the local beach patrol hassled me for "noise level" when ever they saw the ESR decal. I can almost idle down the beach in 2nd or 3rd with that pulse or beat that just says race me!!!!

See pictures under Kid Curry 2nd thread?

Every one who rides my trike agrees so far....

any comments?

[dovesprings250R]

a stock carb is fine with porting and a pipe but a larger carb makes a big difference in throttle response, top end rev and even off idle acceleration. Pretty much a gain everywhere throughout the powerband. Not as huge a gain as some say though. I expected more than what I got from what I had read. proper tuning is still the key to making them run well. I keep my airbox on with a uni filter and no lid.

[wild200x]

a stock carb is fine with porting and a pipe but a larger carb makes a big difference in throttle response, top end rev and even off idle acceleration. Pretty much a gain everywhere throughout the powerband. Not as huge a gain as some say though. I expected more than what I got from what I had read. proper tuning is still the key to making them run well. I keep my airbox on with a uni filter and no lid.what carb ya got? i honestly expected less than what i got.

[dovesprings250R]

38mm keihin airstryker. It opened it up for sure, and the trike was already fast. But it wasn't worlds better than the bench flowed stock carb On the R I sold to Rex. That was a quick R. Throttle response is where I noticed it the most.

[NOS_350X]

Airstryker carbs are kinda wierd, they dont give you the power you would expect, because it gives you more way down low than other carbs, so on top they realy dont feel like they perform as well. They keep a smoother powerband and makes them feel slower than a regular jp, or pwk. IMO the A/S carb is good for pv engines and thats it, anything elce keep that decent powerband so you know your haulin.

[J.D.]

OK well then here's my "mods" yo....haha just a ported cylinder, FMF pipe and silencer. I reckon soon I'll be getting that hand formed pipe from Scott. Possibly boyesen power reeds? And I removed that stupid plastic thing from the reed cage. Running a 180 main jet....if you wanna consider that a mod, can't remember pilot size or anything. So what carb would you fellas recommend with that?

[3wheelergod]

I run 38mm mikuni's on everything I have! They are SO easy to adjust and tinker with. Granted most of mine have been bored ( 40mm and a few 41.5's ) but they run AWESOME on sled's, atv's, hell we have even put them on power paruchutes!
U have a few 36's and some 34's laying around that also work quite good but nothing compares to the 38 miki!

[J.D.]

Any kind in particular? I think my buddies YZ490 has a 38 MM Mikuni on it I could probably borrow....

[dansvan]

OK well then here's my "mods" yo....haha just a ported cylinder, FMF pipe and silencer. I reckon soon I'll be getting that hand formed pipe from Scott. Possibly boyesen power reeds? And I removed that stupid plastic thing from the reed cage. Running a 180 main jet....if you wanna consider that a mod, can't remember pilot size or anything. So what carb would you fellas recommend with that?


A 180 main? thats pretty good size for that combo.

[NOS_350X]

Unlike chase i think the mikuni is the worst carb made LOL, ive tryed to get them dialed in and just cant i use keihin. Its just a preference, I think i got a good 38mm flatslide mikuni laying around id sell. Really it depends on where you want your power. Smaller carb will pull more bottom end if you want the top end get a 41. The 250r i build is running a 41.5 pwk.

What type of riding do you do, and where do you want the brunt of your power. You can easely control power with carb size. I have about 10 keihin carbs laying around and 4 or 5 mikuni carbs that i will never use. but it gives me many options and i can find out what works best for each engine. ALSO what plug are you using?

[J.D.]

I'd say most of my riding is like woods area. I try to stay away from the real real tight technical stuff, so I'd say my main focus would be on mid-range. Every once in a while tho it's fun to find an open area and let it rip!

[3wheelergod]

Remember, I live at 4250 feet above see level and work at 5200. These miki's work GREAT for me here, thing may be different with more barametric pressure at lower sea level. We sometimes ride up the canyon to almost 10,000ft.:shocked:with no problems.

[200x_Basket]

i just bought this one. i hope it rocks.. it does have some bling :headbang:

http://i22.ebayimg.com/03/i/000/e4/84/925c_1.JPG

[3wheelergod]

Who built it? It is a nice hand made job!

[200x_Basket]

Who built it? It is a nice hand made job!

i have no idea :chuckle:

[200x_Basket]

i also have a complete Bills exhaust laying around here somewhere.

[NOS_350X]

The highest i get is 6,000ft but almost all is at sealevel.
If i where you i would get a 38mm flatslide or Pwk, the pwk will give you some more bottom, probably be alot better and cheaper than buying a new pipe.

[MagicJames]

I love my PT Hi Rev, but it seems that i got my chrome one for 20 Bucks less than you can buy a unfinished one for... hmmm

[Duner]

IMO, the Paul Turner Hi Rev is a top pipe for the liquid R's, till you reach 400+ cc's. Then a custom fab piece will be needed. Take it for what its worth. They cost more, but there is a reason why. You can always change gearing to offset low end tq if this is a big deal to you. 12-41 will fix most low end loss from the PT High rev.

[J.D.]

OK...just won an auction for a Keihin 38MM PWK... anybody have any baseline jetting tips for me?

[dovesprings250R]

i just bought this one. i hope it rocks.. it does have some bling :headbang:

http://i22.ebayimg.com/03/i/000/e4/84/925c_1.JPG

This looks just like my Ct pipe. The ct's use the stock on top mount like the photo shows as opposed to relocating it near the skid plate/ motor mount like on the ESR, Turner, etc...

[200x_Basket]

i do think it is a CT but i do not have it in my possesion yet. i will post more pics when i get it.

[r250]

it looks like a ct with a shortened stinger

[200x_Basket]

pics of my pipe
http://www.3wheeler.org/vb/showthread.php?t=32034

[3on3250-R]

JD, your bike needs - V-force reeds, paul turner or ESR pipe, 45 pilot, needle one groove from the top, 170 main In your new 38 pwk.

[firefirefire90]

just looking back I think a CRF or an LRD pipe would be killer.


To bad nobody really has one to test :shrug:

[J.D.]

JD, your bike needs - V-force reeds, paul turner or ESR pipe, 45 pilot, needle one groove from the top, 170 main In your new 38 pwk.


Hey man thanks for the jetting tips! I think I'm gonna run this handformed pipe I'm getting from Scott. Are V-force reeds carbon fiber?

[200x_Basket]

Hey man thanks for the jetting tips! I think I'm gonna run this handformed pipe I'm getting from Scott. Are V-force reeds carbon fiber?

mine are CF

[86waterpumper]

http://www.fototime.com/2BBC32C07FE35C0/standard.jpgI had this lrd two piece adjustable stamped pipe, I never ran it, but I traded it to billy on 3ww and he said the power stunk on it, but from looking at it's huge size I'd say it was made for a big bore motor. I tend to disagree that the pipe above shown is a ct pipe, it's unlike any I have seen but who knows what different ones they did over the years. Here is the one I've got, http://www.fototime.com/196E9CAC8E921FB/standard.jpg every ct I've seen is made like this one with a stamped portion coming up the side and then changing to hand formed sections higher up than most other sectionals. I've tried several bikes with fmf pipes and I've always hated them, I don't think necessarily that they hurt the overall horsepower but on every bike i've tried with one it smoothed out the hit to the point the bike felt more like a four stroke. Plenty others say different so I'm sure motor tune and carbs all make a difference in what pipe works best. I have always believed sectional pipes made more horsepower, but most of them are more targeted at a more narrow power range than alot of stamped pipes are. The one on my flattracker R hits right immediately off the bottom end. A few years ago, you could still get a ct 250r pipe I don't know if he's got anymore or not, power pros or someone was making sectionals too I know lrd stopped several years back. If I was going to buy a new pipe I'd get a paul turner high rev, but it's much better to just wait till a cool sectional shows up on ebay

[J.D.]

Ah I'll stay away from them then, I hate carbon fiber reeds....had too many bad experiences with them.

[3on3250-R]

86waterpumper, Are they skyway tuff wheels hangin In the backround? Any chance you would sell them?

[dovesprings250R]

I just bought my ct pipe direct from Ct. They got pleanty.

[86waterpumper]

NIce to know dovesprings. Are they still 300 some odd bucks? What does your new ct look like, the pipe I posted, or something different now?

[MagicJames]

Waterpumper, that second pic you posted of your pipe, what is that? I've got the Identical one, and cant figure out what the heck it is??

Currently running a PT Hi-Rev

[86waterpumper]

Who knows, I am guessing it is a ct pipe, but to be honest it isn't stamped so there is no way to know 100 percent like with most other sectional pipes. I will say it is made in the ct style, which is to say that it's stamped a good ways up the side, and then has a few sectional pieces at the top, unlike the pipe scottzj posted that he has, which is sectional all the way to the motor in the style of the old selvy pipes etc.

http://www.3wheeler.org/3&4wheelaction/9-85%7ECTracer.html

As you can see in that scan, the old ct pipes were made sort of like that, but I don't know what their current pipes are like, since I haven't talked to the owner in a few years, that is why I asked dovesprings what his he just bought looked like. Alot of companies like ct had a standard mid/top pipe listed in the old magazines and then for a higher price a custom pipe, as I"m sure was used on this test bike. At the end of the day, the best method with the sectionals is to just buy one and try it out, and if it's not got the power in the right rpm range just buy another one and try again, after all they are cool, and represent something someone took alot of trouble to make.

[dovesprings250R]

NIce to know dovesprings. Are they still 300 some odd bucks? What does your new ct look like, the pipe I posted, or something different now?

I don't have any photos of it yet since I haven't had it long but if you look at last months trike of the month Adam has one on his R. It looks more or less just like that. Kind of a mix between a cone style pipe and a paul turner. I paid $280 for it and picked it up at Ct. I also got one of his turn down silencers. The only thing I didn't like about the pipe is that the stinger end was too long and wouldn't allow the silencer to fit properly until I cut about a half inch off the end of the stinger. Not a big deal but all my other pipes bolted right on.
I'll get some photos up as soon as I'm back out to work on the trikes. (I store them about an hour away from me) I know allan didn't change hip pipes at all. What he sells now is what you could buy in 86 and 87 for the R. A good pipe with a focus and low and mid. Perfect for sliding and motocross applications. So far the best I've tried.

[86waterpumper]

It looks like to me the main difference is a short piece right above the stamped section there is a 2nd short ring, so he (Alan) has changed the pipe some over the years, but he said some of them they make in house and some are contracted out, to power pros and places such as that, so who knows. Last I checked power pros and ct were pretty much the last places to get a sectional atc pipe. I think trinity racing was doing short runs every few years, but not sure now. Alan at ct is a cool guy to talk to, he likes to discuss the old days riding trikes and such, and has been super helpful every time I've talked to him. He even donated a bunch of parts one year for trikefest. He said he would make me a new t3 pipe but I'd have to have the bike there, which living in TN isn't really a possibility, but for some of you dudes out that way it might be a option if he would do it. In my opinion he built the coolest 250rs there were back in the day, other than the honda factory team of course...they had removeable aluminum subframes, mugen topends, custom solid aluminum hubs etc, etc. Here is a link to the old buildup article if anyone wants to check it out http://www.fototime.com/inv/952A45F4360FF36 With all of that being said, I do agree with you that a 280 dollar pipe ought to fit on like it's supposed to lol. The only thing I can think is possibly he had two batches of pipes and silencers, and sold more pipes and had some left over or something. That is the one and only downfall I have found in the old sectional pipes is the mounting of them, and the stinger section length

[dovesprings250R]

Here's the ct pipe
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n210/dovesprings250r/250r003.jpg

[200x_Basket]

the pipe looks just like mine!! thanks!!

[200x_Basket]

i just ordered the matching silencer!!!!

[J.D.]

OK....now that I've got my 38MM PWK carb, will it fit into my stock intake boot or do I need to upgrade? If upgrade needed, does anybody have one that will work?

[NOS_350X]

yes it will fit, takes some work but it will fit.

[200x_Basket]

apply a little heat with a propane torch and push it in there!!!

[3on3250-R]

I use a hair dryer or heat gun, watch out for gas fumes.

[J.D.]

Just an update - I put on the pipe I got from Scott, and the 38MM PWK....It is like a tractor down low, with mild mid, and NOTHING on top. Should be a damn good trail rider!!

[86waterpumper]

Do like me and run it with the choke on for a runaway throttle topend boost :doh:

[ScottZJ]

JD, maybe you and I need to swap set ups? HAHA I want the tractor, down low power for the woods, but mine has some serious top end.:doh: :thumbsup: