Hairline cracks on 250r swinger

[Drama]

Was just outside doing some chain adjustment on my '85 250r and I notice small cracks jutting up from the corners of where the rubber gaskets are that hold the rear carrier. I looked for my camera to take a pic to post, but I can't find it anywhere. Is this a huge deal? How long can I still use the swingarm?

Do you think I caused the cracks by over-tightening the carrier bolts? I know I put them really tight.

If/when I find a camera, I'll post some pics.

[jenndnn3]

Picts would be nice.. you sure they aint just paint cracks?

[Drama]

Here they are. Some pics kinda suck though.

Now that I'm looking at the pics, it looks even worse than I thought.

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll296/bdf136/DSCF0192.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll296/bdf136/DSCF0193.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll296/bdf136/DSCF0195.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll296/bdf136/DSCF0196.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll296/bdf136/DSCF0197.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll296/bdf136/DSCF0198.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll296/bdf136/DSCF0199.jpg

[Black Sheep]

me and friend of mine used to crack stock 250R swing arms all the time. he even tried plating his...didn't work...

i would say your either jumping very high, your shock is trashed, or you did not tighten your bolts enough and the axle flexed the carrier inside the swing arm. when the suspension is overworked the load is transferred elsewhere. in this case the swing arm.
At this point anything you try to do is a band aid repair. you can drill holes at the end of the cracks...to stop them from getting bigger... then weld them but they will eventually reapear.
if you are a big jumper i suggest a shock modification replacement and new swing arm (aftermarket)

[likestrikes]

Just pick yourself up a good used swinger and don't sweat it.

Lots of the carriers get those cracks and it's usually from tightening and over tightening the pinch bolts.

[Black Sheep]

Lots of the carriers get those cracks and it's usually from tightening and over tightening the pinch bolts.


I would have to disagree with over tightening causing the problem. With my built motors i used to slip the carrier all the time until i torqued them WAY past spec.

I did this on both my 250R's and 350X's. not one of my 350x's ever cracked in those spots. only one 250R did.

Additionally if you look it cracked on both the left and right of the pinch bolts. tightening the bolt would have no effect on the opposite side of the bolt

[jenndnn3]

Mine were caused by water in my carrier..

First year of rampage my 350 swam.. I know this because I had just redid the swingarm (PC) and after ride I tore it down..

[NOS_350X]

The 450's went to a 4 bolt desing, because these cracks, overtighting will strees it more and eventualy cause it to crack. Really it dosnet matter what caused it, Its cracked, Get it fixed, A weld will fix it, an might last forever, But should have much attention paid to it.

[Rex Karz]

I saw jesus in the first pic :demon:

[Drama]

Thanks guys,

So I guess I can't drive it like that, can I? :(

Well, I was thinking about putting an extended swingarm on it anyway. Nothing beyond 4" though for me. I'm no dune racer.

So if anyone has a used swingarm, let me know. I'll post in the classifieds as well.

[Black Sheep]

The 450's went to a 4 bolt desing, because these cracks, overtighting will strees it more and eventualy cause it to crack. Really it dosnet matter what caused it, Its cracked, Get it fixed, A weld will fix it, an might last forever, But should have much attention paid to it.


well again i disagree. The four bolt idea came from the carriers slipping in the swing arm because single bolts did not hold.

I've used air guns to tighten these down. I would tighten them down so much the rubber grommet squeezed out. I never cracked one from over tightening. The one i did crack also ended up with a bent axle.

A friend of mine had his cracks welded then the swing arm was plated with 1/8" steel that was machined with same grooves/holes. he too thought it was from over tightening it. He used a torque wrench and on the first ride the swing arm and plate cracked.

I then took of the swing arm replaced it and rebuilt the shock, problem solved.

[NOS_350X]

adding 2 bolts isnt going to increase the tighting capabilites, Surface area on carier to swingarm will. The bolts strech the steel on the swingarm to tighten on the carier, This making the metal eventualy crack, Not rocket science, but im shure youll come up with a scientiest that says otherwise. Im done i said what i needed the guy got his answer.

[Black Sheep]

adding 2 bolts isnt going to increase the tighting capabilites, Surface area on carier to swingarm will. The bolts strech the steel on the swingarm to tighten on the carier, This making the metal eventualy crack, Not rocket science, but im shure youll come up with a scientiest that says otherwise. Im done i said what i needed the guy got his answer.

I've got a 85 350X swing arm that is one year older then you ;) I'm the original owner. I've used air guns to tighten it and to this day it has not cracked.

Also adding two bolts IS going to increase the tightening capabilities because 1. the area that clamps down is now wider thus the clamping area is wider thus you have more clamping surface...supporting you own argument...2. more force can be applied over a wider area.


your right it's not rocket science....it's COMMON SENSE

[250sx]

keep it real :duck:

[Red Rider]

I saw jesus in the first pic :demon:ROFLMAO!

[NOS_350X]

keep it real :duck:


Im done, bill has to have the last word im letting him. no point in aruging, the guys buying a new swinger.

[Black Sheep]

Im done, bill has to have the last word im letting him. no point in aruging, the guys buying a new swinger.


:werd: :lmao: :burnout:

[Black Sheep]

Nick, question for you. in this first pic you see two cracks one on the left of the blue line. one of the right of the green line. ONLY the area on the right of the green line gets "tightened" the area left of the blue line is solid and does not tighten down. so why the crack on the left?

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff223/motomanimal32/DSCF0195.jpg

in the second pic you have the R in question. Notice the foot pegs they are bent straight down. this indicates VERY HARD landings. The suspension did it's work then the foot peg took the rest of the riders weight and force after the shock bottomed out.

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff223/motomanimal32/DSCF0199.jpg


you'll also notice the grab bar is tweaked. indicating a flip to one side. I've seen results like this many times. the trike flips backwards one rear tire grabs more traction and the rear end twist back and forth. Thus flexing the rear axle/carrier There by causing cracks.

less then a mile from my house i can still see the scar on the tree i clipped causing me to flip backwards to one side twisting my R's rear end...that's the R swing arm i was talking about i cracked in the same spot the same way. All on a swing arm that was about as old as you were when i did it in 1986

[NOS_350X]

we both agreed to leave it, why cant you do that?

Yet again you must bring age into it, Thats your main fighting point on everything now.

[Black Sheep]

we both agreed to leave it, why cant you do that?

Yet again you must bring age into it, Thats your main fighting point on everything now.

i'm not fighting I'm discusing to help OTHERS gain from my experiance,

i was merely trying to further explain my point with the photo's.

I bring age into is because in the case of these three wheelers it has EVERYTHING to do with it.

I have the experience you will never have...at no fault of your own...I've been riding these things since they were new. you have not. that gives me a perspective you will never have. I've dealt with every issue they have from new to old. your only experience...again through no fault of your own...is on machines that are used and sometimes abused.

I've broken these swing arms on NEW machines and repaired others in the SAME spot. over tightening the bolts was never the issue. Again i will say I have a 1985 350X swingarm that the bolts were over torqued because my motor mods would cause the carrier to rotate and loosen the chain. 20 yrs later it's going on it's third X.

[NOS_350X]

If your axle berrings are good the carrier wont spin,, Something dosent add up there.

Im not going to argue with you until you can leave out my age, You wont respect me just because my age, BEFORE you knew i was 21 it wasnt an issue, you respected me, Now you dont. Sad that one thing changed your view. Keep posting, Its just showing ALL YOU CAN DO IS FIGHT WITH PEOPLE!!!

[Black Sheep]

If your axle berrings are good the carrier wont spin,, Something dosent add up there.

i'm not going to argue with you until you can leave out my age, You wont respect me just because my age, BEFORE you knew i was 21 it wasnt an issue, you respected me, Now you dont. Sad that one thing changed your view. Keep posting, Its just showing ALL YOU CAN DO IS FIGHT WITH PEOPLE!!!


so why the need for four pinch bolts if carriers don't move?

I'll tell you why...because they DO move.

ROLLER bearings are designed for back and forth movement not the side load stress 3 & 4 wheelers place on them. When they experience that side load stress they can momentarily freeze up thereby pulling the carrier forward.

That is why rear roller bearings are only last a year or so. while tapered bearings last a lifetime. it is also why RPM now offers Tapered ROLLER bearings in their carriers...

...HONDA TRX 450R MILLENNIUM BEARING CARRIER
Part # A11-120. Uses tapered roller bearings for greater side load capacity than standard ball or twin row bearings.

http://www.team-rpm.com/bearing_carriers.htm...


something i was looking into a few years ago when i found a separate source for tapered ROLLER bearings. The carrier just needs to be modified.


And for the record my lack of respect has nothing to do with your age.

it has to do with you arguing points that others with MORE experience then both us combined have and support my arguments.

I've never seen you prove a point with Expert experience. only your own.

I give you credit for what you Do know at your age. Hence the initial reason for my belief you were older.

someday you might want to give me credit for MY age and Experience.

if i were in a position like you i would be hounding someone like me to learn from. How do you think I learned. years of experience and asking questions from those with more.

[NOS_350X]

s
someday you might want to give me credit for MY age and Experience.




I never said you wernt knoledgable, You are very knoledgable:shrug: you just dont know how to convay anything, And all you want to do is start fights. Seems like thats your whole gole in life. well at least on here.

[Drama]

Um, yea...

So back to me, and away from arguing.

I only own the trike for about 4 months, so if the thing was jumped hard, it was before me. I got it for a really good price, and figured I'd have to put at least a grand into it. Currently I have 400 into it.

I'm not an expert on this stuff, so I'm not going to argue either side. All I am saying is that the cracks appeared after I adjusted the chain and tightened the bolts back down. I tightened everything down and then drove it for like 20 minutes behind my house and then discovered the cracks.

However I do acknowledge that may be a complete coincidence. I did notice the
bent pegs when I bought it and assumed that was due to jumping, but I got it for a good price so that didn't really bother me.

I'm looking for a new swinger, and I'm considering Black Sheep's point and will also look into rebuilding my rear shock. However, I am also going to ecercise some restraint in tightening down the bolts. I have a long past of over-torqueing things and it has burned me many many times.

Either way, thanks for all the info.

[Black Sheep]

bdf136, as far as i'm concerned this has always been about you and your problem.

Nicks just in love with me and i won't return his affections so he's a little upset with me. :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

seriously though here are some pics i took of a friends 350X i'm working on to help further explain the situation.

pic 1 shows the area were discussing. notice how the rubber has been squeezed out on both sides from overtightening. yet no cracks.

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff223/motomanimal32/swinger003.jpg

pic 2 shows the carrier in a swingarm. notice very little clearence. notice the bolt is not tight.

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff223/motomanimal32/swinger004.jpg


pic 3 is a close up.

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff223/motomanimal32/swinger005.jpg


pic 4 has me measuring the "gap" when the swingarm is not tight. .007"

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff223/motomanimal32/swinger007.jpg


now as you can see the bolts can only tighten down so much. the swingarm can only be drawn in so much .007". the swingarm is over 3/16" thick.

moving steel that thick that little will not crack it.


hope this helps.

[NOS_350X]

Nicks just in love with me and i won't return his affections so he's a little upset with me. :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:



:bs: Just grow up and move on. We droped it a while ago, YOU cant dorp anything you love to fight, thats all you can do and thats all you know how to do. I get pissed because your too immature to leave a subject witht he fact we dissagree. If people look at what your post its easy to tell. It can crack. :thumbsup:

[Black Sheep]

:bs: Just grow up and move on. We droped it a while ago, YOU cant dorp anything you love to fight, thats all you can do and thats all you know how to do. I get pissed because your too immature to leave a subject witht he fact we dissagree. If people look at what your post its easy to tell. It can crack. :thumbsup:

NO SIR< YOU MOVE ON TO INSULTS WHEN YOU'VE LOST THE DEBATE BASED ON FACTS

EVERYTHING YOU'VE POSTED IN HERE HAS SHOWN YOUR THE FIGHTER!!!

STICK TO THE SUBJECT AND LEAVE THE INSULTS AND NAME CALLING TO THE FIGHT CLUB.

I WON'T LEAVE A SUBJECT ALONE WHEN YOU CONTINUE TO GIVE OUT BAD ADVICE.

[Black Sheep]

here are some more pics with facts about the issue.


with the carrier removed i tightened the pinch bolt all the way in until the tabs meet.

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff223/motomanimal32/swinger008.jpg



here you can see how much i drew it in...almost the same amount as the thickness of the steel...approx 3/16"

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff223/motomanimal32/swinger009.jpg





here you can see NO CRACKS!!!

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff223/motomanimal32/swinger011.jpg




now if going WAAAY past the limits of where the carrier would actually fit inside.... and going 3/16" as opposed to .007" that is the clearance of the carrier when inside....if this does not crack it then over tightening it won't


Nick i'll save you the trouble.


I'm old washed up has been arogent fighting bald fat short yankee thrillbilly stuck in the past internet trouble maker.

now that the insults are out of the way how about you come back with some insightfull discussion.

[NOS_350X]

Im done i said what i needed the guy got his answer..
After i say that you come back with this

I've got a 85 350X swing arm that is one year older then you I'm the original owner. I've used air guns to tighten it and to this day it has not cracked.

Also adding two bolts IS going to increase the tightening capabilities because 1. the area that clamps down is now wider thus the clamping area is wider thus you have more clamping surface...supporting you own argument...2. more force can be applied over a wider area.


your right it's not rocket science....it's COMMON SENSE.

.Im done, bill has to have the last word im letting him. no point in aruging, the guys buying a new swinger.


:werd: :lmao: :burnout: .
SO i thought it was over everythign was good, We where done

.Nick, question for you. in this first pic you see two cracks one on the left of the blue line. one of the right of the green line. ONLY the area on the right of the green line gets "tightened" the area left of the blue line is solid and does not tighten down. so why the crack on the left?
Then i get that, WTF, THATS 2 POST DIRCTED AT ME , WITH ABSOUTLY NO RESPONSE FROM ME REGARDING WHAT YOU TYPED. WAIT, THERES ANOTHER FROM HIM, MY REPLY THE THE PICUTRES

I never said you wernt knoledgable, You are very knoledgable you just dont know how to convay anything, And all you want to do is start fights. Seems like thats your whole gole in life. well at least on here. .
SO THEN HE GOES ON TO POST ANOTHER GOING ON MORE.



NO SIR< YOU MOVE ON TO INSULTS WHEN YOU'VE LOST THE DEBATE BASED ON FACTS

EVERYTHING YOU'VE POSTED IN HERE HAS SHOWN YOUR THE FIGHTER!!!

STICK TO THE SUBJECT AND LEAVE THE INSULTS AND NAME CALLING TO THE FIGHT CLUB.

I WON'T LEAVE A SUBJECT ALONE WHEN YOU CONTINUE TO GIVE OUT BAD ADVICE.


So are you going to let this drop? Your not stating facts, they are your oppinions, as i state mine, Nasa hasnt studied a 350x swingarm, so its not law, O wait here we go this post we will call it BILLS LAW, it can go in the books RIGHT NEXT TO NEWTON.

DUDE IM NOT ARGUING WITH YOU ABOUT THE SWINGARM, MOVE THE EFF ON.

[NOS_350X]

here are some more pics with facts about the issue.


with the carrier removed i tightened the pinch bolt all the way in until the tabs meet.





here you can see how much i drew it in...almost the same amount as the thickness of the steel...approx 3/16"







here you can see NO CRACKS!!!



now if going WAAAY past the limits of where the carrier would actually fit inside.... and going 3/16" as opposed to .007" that is the clearance of the carrier when inside....if this does not crack it then over tightening it won't


Nick i'll save you the trouble.


I'm old washed up has been arogent fighting bald fat short yankee thrillbilly stuck in the past internet trouble maker.

now that the insults are out of the way how about you come back with some insightfull discussion.

WAIT A MINUTE GUYS , MAKE THAT 4 POSTS WITHOUT ME REPLYING TO HIM ABOUT THE SWINGARM.

Now i am,

Take 3 measurements for me,
One of the swingar with the bolts not tight,
Take one of them tightened,
and one of the carier

Now if the carrier is larger than the measuremnt of the swingarm tightened, then it will strech the steel, that would be how it would tighten on the carier. Anything that is streched increases teh chance of it braking.

[Black Sheep]

read/look at my post above your last one. There are your FACTS.

Why bring NASA in. I've used Engineers to back up my claims and you say it's irrelevant Now you want them involved. Cool I'll go ask my Motorcycle forensic expert friend with more experience then both of us combined what his thoughts are. AFTER ALL it is and has been his PROFESSION for the past 30 or so years to diagnose problems such as this. not to mention his previous 30 yrs experiance wrenching/racing them. But i don't think that would satisfy you. You will never admit your Wrong!

[jenndnn3]

:nono: boys...

[Black Sheep]

:nono: boys...
yes mother ;) :D :duck: seriously though i'm sticking to the subject at hand. I have not insulted anyone but myself...damn me :dam:

[BigTBones]

JEASE! WHAT A USELESS OVER TAKEN THREAD!!! All the guy wanted was a simple answer NOT a bickering Match!

BD1F36- Just weld up the cracks or like you said replace it. Ive ran a 250r swingarm with the same cracks on my other 250r for years...Not a problem then..and even when I sold it the guy still rides it and no issues. Do as you choose man!

[aviomech]

What a total waste of time arguing who's right and wrong. You both are right to a certain point. That bike looks abused, so that is a likely reason for the cracks. But OVER-TORQUE is just BAD advice, and may lead to cracks. As an aircraft mechanic for 12 years, I've seen many scenarios of over-torque, none good!! I'm the first to respect the experienced person, but have also learned a couple new things from the younger mechs. And a good experienced mechanic is the first to admit he does NOT know everything.

You both have valid points, leave it at that.

[Black Sheep]

aviomech,

you misunderstood. I NEVER said to over torque them!!! What i did say was i have HAD to over torque them in order to hold the carrier in place because of built motors.

I used the example in the picture that even if you torqued the thing all the way to its max...waaay past the point it could go with the carrier installed...that even then it would not crack. I will prove that point soon when i finish up this particular ATC. i will over torque the crap out of it with air, then jump the shyt out of it...gotta test the new suspension ya know. I will film it and post it. It's not about being right, it's about educating people.


additionally your reference to airplanes is irrelevant. I've never seen a Mild STEEL airplane. Aluminum and steel have very different characteristics. Aluminum is WAY more sensitive to torque settings then steel.

i would also like to point out i am the first to seek out others with more experience when designing, Fabricating, and diagnosing. I never rely on just my own knowledge. I have a list of people i have used over the years.

finally NOS and I go way back. We always argue/debate or whatever you want to call it. It's the norm for us. Its pent up because we live on opposite coast and really just want to thrash each other on the track.

Speaking of Nick... I'll have those measurements for you later on today.

[aviomech]

My point is relevant because aircraft are made out of aluminum, not mild steel, hence the term "aircraft grade aluminum". Along with high-grade steel, titanum, and multiple alloys. I can see using run-on torque, or using a bit more to make up for years of wear. But to use an impact gun, and claim it to be the technically correct way to torque bolts, I will disagree any day. It may work for you, but there are few that probably haven't faired as well.

And no, your trying to be right. If your were educating people, you would teach that the torque specs are wrong, and give a correct torque spec for those mounts. not just impact them. But then thats just my Aeronautical Science degree talking.

[aviomech]

Also what are you using?? Air rachet, 3/8" or 1/2" impact, and at what setting?? Are you using stock or high grade bolts?? And how do you know that you are not getting bolt stretch?? You leave too many variables open to accept your way as a technical way to do it.

[Black Sheep]

My point is relevant because aircraft are made out of aluminum, not mild steel, hence the term "aircraft grade aluminum". Along with high-grade steel, titanum, and multiple alloys.

well considering the swing arms are made of MILD STEEL and NOT aluminum then it is NOT relevant to use ALUMINUM as an example.


I can see using run-on torque, or using a bit more to make up for years of wear. But to use an impact gun, and claim it to be the technically correct way to torque bolts, I will disagree any day. It may work for you, but there are few that probably haven't faired as well.

again irrelevant. I did this in 1985 and 1986 on brand new 1985 and 1986 machines. The pictures were of swing arms 20 years later. and in those 20 years I've never cracked 1 swing arm from over tightening.




And no, your trying to be right. If your were educating people, you would teach that the torque specs are wrong, and give a correct torque spec for those mounts. not just impact them. But then that's just my Aeronautical Science degree talking.

I'm glad you know my intentions. can you tell me what I'm thinking right this very moment???

The impact remark i made was to prove a point not to advise. please re read what i say before misrepresenting what i say.

So because you have a Aeronautical Science degree your smarter then me???

By they way professor it's spelled TITANIUM

Last i knew were were talking about ATC's not airplanes. or do they teach ATC theory in Aeronautical Science?

however since your hung up on degrees let me show you one of my "advisors" accomplishments.

http://www.motorcycleforensics.com/experience.html

I'll take his word over yours any day of the week and twice on Sunday.


p.s i see your 12 years airplane experience and i re raise you 30 yrs ATC experience

[Black Sheep]

Also what are you using?? Air rachet, 3/8" or 1/2" impact, and at what setting?? Are you using stock or high grade bolts?? And how do you know that you are not getting bolt stretch?? You leave too many variables open to accept your way as a technical way to do it.

sorry did not see this post at first.


1/2" impact at max setting using grade 8 bolts.

second I AM NOT SAYING IT'S THE WAY TO DO IT. PLEASE PAY ATTENTION!!!


I said i did it 20+ years ago and just did it yesterday to prove a point.

AGAIN I WENT WAAAY PAST THE LIMIT THE SWINGARM WOULD ALLOW IT TO GO AND STILL NO CRACKS.

hey do they have axle carriers on airplanes ;)

[aviomech]

I was not trying to say I was was smarter than you. I was merely pointing out that you should post a torque spec if you feel the current torque setting is wrong. And I posted my experience to show I'm not an average joe talking out his rear. My years of working with different grade metals in stressed areas does make my opinion relevant. Your obvious arrogance shows in the way you put me down and does not help your case. I have not put you down or your experience, only your idea of performing a torque without a spec that other people can duplicate without under or over torque. Again what worked on your couple trikes, may have failed for someone else(torque it at a different setting).

Metal reacts the same under different stresses whether on an aircraft or atc. Due to your comments I will never take you or your advise seriously again. Because if someone trys to educate you, you start offending that person(NOS's age, my aircraft exp.) I wonder how a person could get sooooo much exp without listening to what other exp people have to say.

[aviomech]

Yeah I'm the second youngest guy in my shop, and I'm the Maintenance Supervisor. I have a bunch of 20+ years exp mechanics under me, and quite a few are there because they think like you. Have to be willing to learn and get over the pride thing. If not, it just brings you down.

[Black Sheep]

I was not trying to say I was was smarter than you. I was merely pointing out that you should post a torque spec if you feel the current torque setting is wrong. And I posted my experience to show I'm not an average joe talking out his rear. My years of working with different grade metals in stressed areas does make my opinion relevant. Your obvious arrogance shows in the way you put me down and does not help your case. I have not put you down or your experience, only your idea of performing a torque without a spec that other people can duplicate without under or over torque. Again what worked on your couple trikes, may have failed for someone else(torque it at a different setting).

A COUPLE??? TRY HUNDREDS. I've owned my own repair shop worked in dealerships, race shops,

i did not give out torque specs because that was not the problem. Fatigue from overworked suspension was.

i've seen first hand what it does to NEW 250R swing arms. and not just my own

here is a another good example. the Suzuki Quad racer rear ends. about 16yrs ago someone came to me with a 500 because his carrier kept slipping in the swing arm. if you've ever looked at them the bolts are different sizes on the chain side 12mm? and brake side 10mm? (dumb ass Suzuki) I re drilled the brake side to the 12mm installed grade 8 bolts on both size and torqued them to twice the spec. on a ALUMINUM swing arm. Still holding to this Day. NO cracks.

I too have metal experience. I've been fabricating aluminum, steel, chromoly. for 25+ years.


you did put me down with remarks like this...
But OVER-TORQUE is just BAD advice, and may lead to cracks. And a good experienced mechanic is the first to admit he does NOT know everything.

I've been helping members on this board for 6 years. I've never steered a member wrong yet. and you find a member who's used my advice say it was bad. To come here only a couple of months and disrespect me like that is a INSULT



Metal reacts the same under different stresses whether on an aircraft or atc. Due to your comments I will never take you or your advise seriously again. Because if someone trys to educate you, you start offending that person(NOS's age, my aircraft exp.) I wonder how a person could get sooooo much exp without listening to what other exp people have to say.

educate me in what? Air planes? what did you try to educate me in? all you did was put down my EXPERIANCE.

and yes you did put my experience down when you say something I've done through trial and error with 100% positive results for me AND OTHERS is wrong.

i also did not put down your experience. i SAID Airplanes discussions are irrelevant because we are NOT talking about airplanes.

i could really care less if you take me seriously or not. your opinion of me has no effect on my life.

but do keep a eye out in the next few weeks :D i'll have some flying experience you might want to see:thumbsup:

[Black Sheep]

Yeah I'm the second youngest guy in my shop, and I'm the Maintenance Supervisor. I have a bunch of 20+ years exp mechanics under me, and quite a few are there because they think like you. Have to be willing to learn and get over the pride thing. If not, it just brings you down.


get over yourself. it has NOTHING TO DO WITH PRIDE.

let me ask you a question.

please tell me your ATC experiance?

please tell me your ATC 250R experiance?

please tell me your riding skill level?

[Black Sheep]

by the way. i do have flight experiance...on a ATC 250R:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

[Black Sheep]

few more questions.

how many 85/86 250R's have you seen with this problem?

how many 85/86 250R's with this problem have you repaired?

I'm sure your aware metal has a memory.

did it ever occur to you the previous owner of this trike over torqued them thus changing the memory from new. then the new owner tightened then down to spec. but, since the memory has been changed it was no longer sufficient. thus allowing some flex that normally would not have occurred? because now factory torque is not sufficient?

[NOS_350X]

by the way. i do have flight experiance...on a ATC 250R:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
First pic i have ever seen of you riding, :loser: :chuckle:

[aviomech]

Black sheep you are the one who needs to get over himself. If you can not recognize other peoples exp, and think your exp is the only one that matters, that would make you the arrogant one, a self proclaimed expert on an internet board:hail: . Wow your world must be lonely there at the top. After your comments here, I wouldn't trust your advice on my daughter's bicycle, let alone your atc advice. :loser:

[250sx]

I should :ban: several of you for a little while after this thread, but I have enough :bs: to deal with right now. THIS ISN'T THE FIGHT CLUB. :nono:

BD1F36 I hope you've received enough info to make a decision about what to do on your R. Sounds like you got a great buy on it. :thumbsup: Please don't hesitate to ask any more questions if you have any.