1987 Atc250r

[250rAL]

This is from the January '87 issue of 3Wheeling magazine. Draw your own conclusions.

[Mr. Richard]

american honda never distributed 87 250r's ,,, cause they never got any from japan,,,,,,, if that was a january of 1990 magazine then maybe ,,, if they were sold then you would see picts of them . no proud owner of a 87 250r would hide it ,,,,,,,,

[Mr. Richard]

but you know i could be wrong,,,,,,

[ATCRYDER]

LMAO@Kasey/



What is that!??!?!

and as far as that article: that was already known. SOmewhere 9in canada there msut be 87 R and a X.....but no one has co9me forward yet! the sales are in the double digits IF THAT...guarenteed

[85200xsnoxer]

did u do that in paint kasey?

[Mr. Richard]

i'm learning how to use photo shop !!! how did i do??????


http://www.3wheeler.org/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2525

[85200xsnoxer]

looks good ,all the threw me off was the fork boots other than that i thought it was a 87

[84200s/m]

boy i know someone who has a 87 that needs a rebild its been sitting in his shed for 9 years runs it a little every year keeps air in the tires no he wont sell

[Mr. Richard]

dude there are no 87's ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,:D :D :D :D

[Fuzzy]

Kasey if american Honda didnt order any. Was it possable that they could of been ordered from Japan. Kind of like when people would pay to have a sports car imported from over seas?. Or did none at all ever make it off the assemble line?.I was just wondering if any at all got built and sold in japan itself?.

[350xhilaration]

Here's another version of the R

[Mr. Richard]

i'm gettin a lot a miles out of that pict huh????

[250sx]

there were some '87s made, I'm almost positive. Now, they were probably just rebadged '86 models which some argue don't really count. however, as far as I'm concerned if the frame says it's an '87 then it's an '87.

[dave h]

dudes, there has to be one. if theres one in the pic, there has to be one. its like concept cars and RTS mopars. there is a pic of one, so there is one(or was:( ) i hope it still exists. someone has it, we dont know where, we dont know who, but its somewhere because i dont think they would destroy something that they put time money into. maybe they parted it out as an 86 for whatever reason. or used parts for the quads. or sold them to the israli army troops and mounted machine guns and mini sam sites and a cloaking device so noone can see them ever. (gasp) what a conspericy

trust no one,
dch

[Glenn]

I don't understand the Canada story. Why would Canada get them and not us? Canada and the States are pretty similar, did Honda think Canada would turn a blind eye to the BS going on with CPSC at that time? (I wish they did)

[250rAL]

My personal opinion is that if any '87's actually made it to Canada, or anywhere else for that matter, they were probably called back before they ever got to the dealers. And are there actually any U.S servicemen serving in Canada? And if so, why? No offense to you Canadians.

[BiG ReDs All Da Way]

None taken. (canadian)

Well as far I know, Canada was mostly all utility atc's, well where I am from. I doubt a 87' R here.

[Black Sheep]

the picture you see is of a PRE PRODUCTION PROTOTYPE THERE IS NO 87 R or X Canada did not get them because they would have to of ordered it from American Honda the SOLE distributer of ATC's nothing other then that pic. or the pic at 3ww has ever been seen

[wildchild74]

Whatever..............
:confused:

[atvgolfnut]

OK everybody,

From all the information I have gathered over the years the 87's were built but never came into North America. Japan yes, maybe Central and South America but no word there yet to confirm. Europe does not have any knowledge of them on their books.

How do I know?

American Honda has the 87 part numbers in their computer system even though they were not imported due to the "ban". I found a Canadian dealer just a few weeks ago that claims to have an 87 ATC 250R microfiche. I checked some of the numbers off it and they come up as 87's. I'm trying to get him to sell it to me, we'll see.

Talked to a guy in Japan that races GP bikes and he said they had them but does not know if they were destroyed or who to contact at Honda or HRC to locate parts/units.

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/

Check out the Quest for 87's on this web site for a very interesting ad.

I have located some 87 250R parts in the Netherlands. As soon as I get the extra cash I'll order a few examples just to verify.

If anyone has contacts in Japan please share them with me. I would like to import the 350X and 250R models and/or parts.

Just to make it more difficult.....the dealer's inventories are not on a searchable computer network so some dealers may have 87 parts and we won't know unless we contact every single dealer. Plus some may be holding on to the parts or complete vehicles as a collectors trophy... just like we would.

[atvgolfnut]

MR ATC.....where did you get that idea?

Every business unit of Honda(Japan) acts as its own entity. Canadian Honda, American Honda, each purchase what they need or are alloted direct from Honda Japan. Even if they produce the machines in their own country everything has to go through corporate!

[hrc200x]

What '87 parts did you find in Netherlands? Have you seen pics or have proof that they are from a '87 or is it just some guy that thinks they were off a '87 when actually they could be '85? Just like you see some people on ebay calling '83-'85 200x's '86's.

[Tecate250]

Why???
Cause Canada Is the best.

And like I said a while back.
A local honda dealer tock all there atcs in 87 and buired them in a land fill.
Might be a lead.
The 200r is around why not the 250???/

[Tecate250]

Oh and look I live in Nova Scotia.
I might find one lol.

How much would one be worth????

[ATCRYDER]

Originally posted by Tecate250

The 200r is around why not the 250???/

200R?? Guarenteed theres no more than 3 200R's in canda, IF THAT...

[Black Sheep]

Originally posted by atvgolfnut
MR ATC.....where did you get that idea?

Every business unit of Honda(Japan) acts as its own entity. Canadian Honda, American Honda, each purchase what they need or are alloted direct from Honda Japan. Even if they produce the machines in their own country everything has to go through corporate!

this was told to me by all the overseas and canadian dealerships i contacted looking for info on 87's.

let me ask you this, if they and myself are wrong and the other countries did not get them from american Honda why are 3wheelers not still made today? America was the ONLY country to so call ban them. seems like they would still have gotten them when we did not. and well past 87. hmmmmmmm

[Ahickey]

Yeah ATVgolfnuts..... I call :bs: If you order "1987" parts from overseas for a 250R what's to say they're 87 parts? The 87 parts would most likely be identical to 86 parts. They're the same machine (except for differences in color and other tiny things people have noticed) ... Perhaps you should come up with a complete 1987 machine with the VIN and date sticker to prove it. At this point I think if anyone in Canada had an 87 we'd all know about it because everyone is going nuts to see one. No proof yet. Good luck!

Adam

p.s. As far as throwing ATCs into a landfill that's absurd. That is total :bs:

[$"|"I|\|G|2@?]

yay!...i believe in the 87s...and i hope one day ill find one sitting in an elderly senile old mans garage as im biking down the street and he tells me i can have it and that he has been hiding it from the world since the day he baught it :D ...welll enough of my dreaming:doh:

[atvgolfnut]

OK......what...ever

I'm sending a check off for the 87 ATC250R microfiche which I'm sure all you disbelievers will say yeah, whatever, find a machine!

That's fine, I get you your proof!

#1
87 parts for 350X and/or 250R that are definitely 87 parts such as the different colored plastic or the unique stickers

#2
VIN tagged frame designated 1987 Model

I'll post the proof here and at www.3wheelerworld.com

I'm getting close, just gonna take a little more time.........

[Merriman]

I don't see why everyone is arguing over the 87, and the information trying to be obtained on it. I support anyone and their quest to find any information on trikes. I say just let them get the information and then decide whether or not it's legit.

[hrc200x]

I'm not mad at the guy, I was just making sure that he thought of seeing proof that the parts were from a '87 and not an earlier one. I talked to atvgolfnut many years ago on the net and then we lost contact for until now. He was still searching for them back then. Keep up the good work.
ATVgolfnut why don't you tell everyone about the possible '87 350x you might have seen in WI?

It sounds like you might be buying air scoops, mud flap and a '87 frame from Netherlands?

[250sx]

Where is Levi??? He says he's SEEN an actual '87 250r IN PERSON.

[ATCRYDER]

...yeah...where IS Levi?...I had some questions about the Taurus to he saw...

[Black Sheep]

don't get me wrong i would love to see a '87' 350X or 250R. let me say this though just because they have part #'s for differant colored plastic dose not make it a 87. many of the Japenese bikes/trikes come in different colors in differant countries (yamaha YZ's were yellow and black in america but in europe were white and red) i just recently was informed you can get 85/86 250R plastic in Black from Honda (not 100% positive though) also most european ATC's came with reflectors and Keyed ignitions as stock equipment (like you see in the "87" pics) before 85

[Unregistered]

THIS IS STARTING TO SOUND LIKE THE LOCHNESS MONTERS THAT PEOPLE MAY HAVE SEEN. THIS IS TO FUNNY.

[atvgolfnut]

To comment on what hrc200x mentioned on the X sighting.

This was back in 1988/89 winter in North-central Wisconsin. We used to run the snowmobile trails over a few counties and one day while stopping at a usual stop there drove by a 350X with the white tank scoops, reflectors and the red rear fender skirt. I didn't think anything of it at the moment other than it was very different and I didn't know why the hell somebody would put reflectors on their trike.

I didn't realize it was an 87 until years later when I saw some pictures of 87's in some old Dirt Wheels or Three Wheel Action. Wow, I thought maybe I'd try to go find one and keep it as another part of the collection.

Well I never found an full 87 yet but I know the parts were made and Japan did have them for sale for a short period of time. I ended up selling off my complete holdings of 350X's during college for cash. I had no idea what direction things would take, and I thought it would not be so impossible to get parts as it has become. Or that the prices would be just disgustingly high. Come on $300+ for some stupid rear piece of plastic get real!! I even dumped dozens of magazines and brouchures that were like new! I had the X's, the R 85-86, Tecate 86-87 and the Tri-z's 85-86.

Now even more years later.....the quest is on! One way or another with all the contacts I have made I will find one if it ends up taking me to Japan. I believe every three wheeler built by Honda came out of one of their many Japan plants so I see no reason why there should not be at least one example of the 87's. I'm only going after the 350X and the 250R. The 200R's were factory racers and they would be in a personal collection of someone else's or the factory took them back and dismantled them or the factory has them in safekeeping in an underground bunker just like the goofy government does (am I going off the deep end here?)

Anyway, I'll buy things as I can and if they send me the wrong parts I'll just move on to the next source. I am getting the 87 fiche and I hope it will lead to more clues on build location of the machines and perhaps get me going in the right direction.

I don't know if Canda ever had the 87's, it's possible the military individual who sent in the photos to Dirt Wheels was stationed over in Japan and bought the unit there then shipped it back in a crate on one of the transports OR cut the photo out of a Japanese brouchure and sent it in.

Europe doesn't seem to know about them so that's a most likely a dead end.

Canada and USA have the parts listings in their computers so Honda was intending on exporting them from Japan into North America. I don't think the parts numbers would be even in the North American business units unless the parts were in production.

I will never stop looking until I have the answers. However the best proof of a VIN tagged 87 frame might be all gone by the end of 87. Honda took back the remaining stock from US dealers and dismantled the units, then crushed the frames. All do to the stupid liability suits. It's our own citizens faults and the legal system of why 3wheelers are no longer here. Why can't people use their brains instead of getting hurt and using the system to make themselves rich or to pass on the guilt of their child's death or injury in an ATV accident because they were too lazy properly supervise, buy riding gear for, and train on riding techniques. Right now the CPSC and other groups are again pushing for another ban.. This time all youth ATV's and a change in advertising style. Even though their's a statistic out there about 95% of under 16 yr old ATV accidents are on Adult ATV's. That makes sense! Getting hurt on Adult machines so lets ban all the youth models. I have to stop here cause thinkin off all my tax dollars being wasted by a bunch of morons and tree huggers!!!!!

[Black Sheep]

atvgolfnut, while you were selling of all your Trikes i've kept mine and have never left the sport since i got into it in the 70's. i have yet to see a 87 350X or 250R. that includes working for Honda. while i do agree Honda made some 87 350X's and 250R's I do not believe any ever left Japan for sale. i have seen pictures of Honda's museum and some of the bikes/trikes inside. however from my sources in japan none ever left the factory. and all this talk about dismantaling ATC'S in 86/87 is also questionable since i personally bought my 86 250R in Aug. of 87 as a left over model. but if they did dismantel 86 models why would they make 87's??? since Canada is only 3-4hrs from me i called up there (back in 87) about a 87. they said they placed orders for some but never got them or the 350X's. its hard to beleive in 17yrs i nor anybody else has actually seen a 87 X or R (white scoops is no big deal i've had them on my 86 since 88) like i said color options throughout countries is common. and most Canadian models came with reflectors throughout the 80's.
as far as "making parts" Honda makes all there spare parts at the same time of production so having leftover parts is also no big deal. now consider this why did none of the european countries get them if they did exist (other the preproduction) they were not outlawed there. as a matter of fact 3wheel racing was still going on and running strong in europe and austraila up untill earlly 90's. seems like Honda would have unloaded them in those countries were they would sell like hotcakes but, no instead the european and austrailian riders paid huge fee's to ship used 250R's from america to them. ee i've done plenty of research on this as well i even had one guy try to tell me they still made 350X's in japan up untill 99 he even swore he had a brocher he would e-mail me a pic but i never got it (surprise) Also you must consider Japan is a small country with a lot of people they have very strict laws about riding off road vehicles therefore they sell very little of them (mostly CR's) this is what i was told by Honda people from America to europe to japan ATC'S were a american product when american Honda stopped ordering them Japan stopped making them. personally i wish you the best of luck in finding them and if you do i will be the first in line to say i was wrong. but finding a parts fisch (that was printed in 86) is no big deal

[Mr. Richard]

ok guys then explain how these 85 and 86 cut off frames keep surfacing ,, brand new never used ,, theres a rear section of a 85 on ebay now,,, so that tells me there were lotsa overstock wheelers that were in dealer stock that got cut up,,,, not nessesarily sent back or desrtoyed ,,, thats where these school motors are coming from too ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Glenn]

I see the destruction thing this way: I'm sure they "dismantled" them rather than crushing an entire unit. I agree with the liability issue. It was much easier for Honda to get rid of what stock they had, rather than "sell it off" and face liability from some lawyer or group of safety folks.

However, I'm sure they took apart what they had and just trashed the frames. As we all know "the sum of the parts is greater than the whole". That being said, I'm sure they used or redistributed the parts from the dismantled wheelers.

[atvgolfnut]

Mr. ATC,

1
Are you trying to say I'm a turncoat bacause I had to sell off my X's cuz I needed cash? I supposed I should have quit college and kept the ATC's?
What position did you work in Honda?

2
You agree Honda made 87's, that's enough for me. Someone has them and I 'm gonna get one or two for me. Then I can put a proper museum cam of them on the net for all to see! The only way it should be! Why hide them?

3
Yes it is possible to buy the left over models, however dealers were given special incentives to unload the remaining units as soon as possible OR they could send them back to avoid possible liability from future sue happy consumers. Some dealers sent them back and they were dismantled and those are the engines we see being sold from certain schools' small engine classes as used school property. Frames were crushed to avoid further liability and not selling three wheelers elsewhere was a decision by Honda to avoid further litigation and to head down the road of 4wheels instead. Yes other countries had more stock or took longer to sell out the remaining models.

4
87 350X, I saw what I saw. I did not have a chance to see the VIN tag but who would try to copy such a thing at that time? It will remain an unknown

5
Japan stopped making them when the decision was made to go to 4wheels. American Honda would order whatever the market demanded, so long it was volume. Like I said before, corp Honda Japan is the Head, the rest of the world's Honda is just business units. The business units take commands from Japan and only report the relevant data to Japan so they know what markets are doing well and what are not.

6
I would not believe any companies PR or managements' claims to so called facts. American Honda denied any existance of 87 ATC's or parts, they claimed Honda did not even design anything beyond 86 in ATC's. Then I called back with the 87 part numbers.....they didn't know what to say. The individual punched then into the computer and there it was, complete listing of 87 parts that were ready to ship back in 86 but American Honda did not import them do to the "ban"

7
I will get the microfiche and make a scan of the 87 listings then we'll just see.
This was made in 87!

:chuckle: :lmao: :chuckle: :lmao: :chuckle: :lmao: :chuckle: :lmao: :chuckle:

[ATCRYDER]

Im gonna bump myself into here...

I dont believe there was a R or a X....thats jsut the way it is. With both this board & 3ww no one has showed us PROOF of either one....and we are talking easily 1000+ members--many constants---from all over: US---canada---autrailiia---UK

as for your #5: do you realize the consent decree didnt go into effect until 1988 I hope so your theory is a bit of. It was not a decision to move to quads (even though it was inevitable)....it was a forced decision. Suzuki made the first quad is 1981 (i believe) so not liek they were "brand new". Quads really took off in 85 hwile the trikes were @ their prime.

:::I DO believe that honda choped the headtubes off---ive seen lt9os of proof including one thats on ebay right now--straight fromt he factory.:::

[ATCnut]

Just because there are listing in the Honda parts system, does not mean that something was actually made. Here is a screen shot from partsfiche for a Owners Manual for a ATC500R. Does that start a whole nother debate about its existance?

[ATCnut]

Ive done some research into the format of Honda parts numbers. The middle three are for each model of bike. When a part is used for the first time on something it get that bikes number. 350X = HA5. I dont remember off of the top of my head the other ones. I figured out tht HA9 is what honda assigned the ATC500R, but the 85 Owners manual is the only part listed. Here is a pic from Servicehonda. Note the owners manuals for the 87 250R and 350X. I tried to order the 500R manual from Partsfiche, servicehonda, and Helm. None of them could deliver

[ATCRYDER]

good points, atcnut.

I acutally have proof that Honda was planning on keeping the 350X unchanged (engine wise--until 1989 but due to the consent decree---we will never know.

[250rAL]

LOL :chuckle: I think I've created a monster here.

[atvgolfnut]

The debate was started over the advertisements of them. Check out the ad on www.3wheelerworld.com in the Quest for 87's area. A company is not going to run an ad like that unless they are building those units.

The ATC500R was in a prototype stage if that. We never saw ads or reviews on one

[ATCRYDER]

Check out the ad on www.3wheelerworld.com in the Quest for 87's area. A company is not going to run an ad like that unless they are building those units.

uh actually atvgolfnut............think about that statment. For 2 reasons thats not a good exucse:

1. Look @ anything===cars---trucks--QUADS---theyre all gonna show preview pics of them---so what? Not like dirtwheels jsut walks in Yamaha Corp. and takes a pic of the newest yamaha!! They get brochure photos---previews.

2. The last years of ATC's were very unsure years. Yamaha jsut quit the trike business after 86 expired while Honda & Kawasaki were the only "big guys" still tryin for it. The consent decree is what messed it all up. The 350 & the R are still the highest in performance off road vehicle to date if we are talking about the world of ATV's---why would honda open up more cans of more worms when they allready were in deep sh1t from the morons who were suing them and all the bad press. they wouldnt! They only realeased the small slow bikes in 87: 200x---125---250sx---Kawasaki, however, well I cant even explain what THEY were thinking with a Tecate! :chuckle:

[250sx]

Originally posted by ATCRYDER
They only realeased the small slow bikes in 87: ...250sx

:wtf: :bash: :fire: :thmbsdwn: :loser: :booty:

[ATCRYDER]

thats life, man----theyre small, slow bikes compared tot he R and the 350x.

So dont be "WTFin" me, boy. :chuckle:

[BiG ReDs All Da Way]

Uh oh dan is gonna start kickin asses, nobody puts down a SX right dan:cool: :chuckle:

[ATCRYDER]

I wasnt putting it down at all!! learn to comprehend.

[Troll]

Are there any 1987 200x,sx ect.. around?Thank's........:thumbsup:

[ATCRYDER]

yeah--you havent seen either, Troll???

I own an 87 200x---and a couple people here have a 87 sx

Rob

[250sx]

there's an '87 200x on ebay right now.

I won't even get into an argument over why Rob is WRONG about the SX being small or slow. You ever tried picking one up? :lmao:

[ATCRYDER]

hey! I didnt say light! :chuckle:

Like I said: The SX is probly the BEST or close to it, all around trike but compare it to an R or an X and its a boulder going no where. And it is "small" to me becuase 250 is nothing for a 4 stroke....250 however in a 2 is perfect.

Rob

[Tecate250]

Ok the r mabey faster but lets see which bike will go futher.
Ill bet that the sx and big red will go futher on a tank of gas.
So really the sx/es are faster.
Besides has anyone thought of the 87 atc motors in the 87 trx???

[Bandit_33]

Ya good question! Where they the same motor??

:headbang:

[Big Mike]

hey Kasey, make a black one and see what that looks like

[MIK6]

I get sick of this argument. If you guys want a High preformance 87 trike... BUY A TECATE. I have never seen solid proof that the 87R was EVER sold to the public, and I don't think I ever will. The 87 T3 WAS made.

LONG LIVE THE T3
MIK6 / Mike

[250sx]

Originally posted by MIK6
I get sick of this argument. If you guys want a High preformance 87 trike... BUY A TECATE. I have never seen solid proof that the 87R was EVER sold to the public, and I don't think I ever will. The 87 T3 WAS made.

LONG LIVE THE T3
MIK6 / Mike

:hail: :thumbsup: :headbang:

[Black Sheep]

ATCgolfnut, i'm not saying your a turncoat what i'm saying is I never left the sport and then came back this is my life and my buisness. as far as what my job duties at Honda were they included but not limited to; parts lookup (when the normal parts guys could not find items ex. CR500 wide ratio trannsmission that most Honda dealers dont even know about) mechanic,service manager, amature/pro race team manager, pro racer Bike builder and mechanic (my riders have won severall local championships as well as LORETA LYNN titles and SX ). i also am a friend of a certain American Honda Factory race team head engine builder with the initials C.W. i have also spoken to Marty Hart about the ATC500R and am a former pro ATC racer.

now as far as your statement about the ATC500R..."87 Debate
The debate was started over the advertisements of them. Check out the ad on www.3wheelerworld.com in the Quest for 87's area. A company is not going to run an ad like that unless they are building those units.

The ATC500R was in a prototype stage if that. We never saw ads or reviews on one

I have severall pictures of Honda Big Bore ATC'S ranging from 350-500 2 strokes to 2 versions of there ATC500X. I have both reviews and pictures so your wrong about that. not to mention there ATC200R. so that argument is nil.

we won't even go into the ATC50 Honda was making.

see what you fail to relize is press releases as well as service manuals are printed and are sent out months before actuall production units are assembled on the assembly line (they want to be the first to release next years models) this is why the press releases of the 85 ATC 350X have differant fork boots and air scoops then actual production units.

the 87's are in Honda museum and that is the only place you'll ever find one.

keep trying though i'm actually on your side i wish they were out there but like what was said before 1000's of members in differant country's with no proof in 17yrs.

[Black Sheep]

Originally posted by MIK6
I get sick of this argument. If you guys want a High preformance 87 trike... BUY A TECATE. I have never seen solid proof that the 87R was EVER sold to the public, and I don't think I ever will. The 87 T3 WAS made.

LONG LIVE THE T3
MIK6 / Mike


Mike, that was the only year the tecate was better then the 250R it was the only way Kawasaki could beat Honda :booty: :lmao: :chuckle:

[MIK6]

LMFAO @ MR.ATC!!!!

At least you can admit that a Kawi is better than a Honda. lol

TECATES RULE

:headbang: :headbang:

MIK6 / Mike

[ATCRYDER]

check yur PM real quick for me...

[Mr. Richard]

the way i see it , you don't have to be anyone special. or know anyone to research this . with e-mail and internet skills a person can reach corprate heads and any other indiviguals needed to answer all questions... so if someone is really hell bound to find out , i'm sure the right answers will be found ,,,OR NOT,,,,,,,,,

[Merriman]

I think MR. ATC needs to start posting pictures of all those old race trikes, and proto-types. Those are the coolest.

[Black Sheep]

Merriman, i don't want to sound like a jerk but before i found .org i found and talked to Billy at 3ww i made a promise to him that i would only give him or Howdy all the info i had on rare and unusuall trikes. i intend to keep my word with no disrespect to Dan or .org if it had been the other way around i would do the same. however for the record since it has not been shown at 3ww yet (and its been some time now Billy...i know you come here so get moving...jk...lol) i will tell you some of what i have sent pics of.

pictures of;

2 differant "race only" factory Honda ATC 500X's dating around 82 and 83 one has 82 ATC 185s body work the other has 83 ATC 200x body work.

a TIGER 80 that puts out ALMOST as much HP as a stock 350X

a Tiger golf cart

the entire 83 and 85 Honda ATC accesory catalog

the worlds fastest 3 wheeler...183mph

Kawasaki race team KXT 200cc four strokes

plus about 100 other pics i can't even remember

i still havent sent him the Big bore 2 strokes yet but maybe sometime this coming week i will

[250sx]

Why tell us about stuff we can't see? :doh:

I don't see the point in having "exclusives" between sites...it's not like we're running commerical sites. We both have those pics of Kearney Yamaha that Jeroboam7 took. I'm talking about stuff people want to donate...now if someone posted a magazine article that I scanned on their website then that wouldn't fly. Hell, if they don't wanna post it I will. :D

However, if that's the way it is then I understand your position. Just quit telling me about stuff I can't see. :cry:

[Black Sheep]

Dan, to avoid a possible civil war i sent you a PM

[250sx]

Ok. Now back to the debate...anyone wanna explain this one. :D

[ATCRYDER]

I can :p

I have ltos of info waiting to go up on trikeriders.com about this kinda crap

Ill tell you this (and you cnantake it from there); Honda planned on leaving the 350X engine fairly unchanged until 1989

Rob

[Black Sheep]

yes i can and will,

Honda has all of there material for each model printed up before there production runs begin this is so they can send this info to there dealers prior the unit (bikes/trikes/quads) shipping. this is so they have it already in there systems and inventory before they get them this way they are prepared when they do arrive. these items which includes but not limited to;
factory service manuals,owner manuals,set up instructions (this is what a dealer gets to instruct how to remove from crates and assemby units),accesory instructions,microfishes,parts list,brochers,advertisments,

one of Honda biggest and most recent publishing blunders was printing a picture of a 97 CR 250 in a 98 advertisement

if you have a 85/86 factory service manual look at the fork boots and air scoops... a little differant from actuall production parts

like i said 87's 250R 350X AND 500R are prototypes

[250sx]

Yeah, that's what I figured too. However, it is interesting to see what could have been.

[hrc200x]

I'm with atvgolfnut the whole way... wanna a partner in crime? if so talk to me. Cause if infact there is '87 stuff out there I want a piece of it. Many people didn't and still don't know that Tiger's exist. Sure some of you ex racers used to race against them, but how will the rest of us find out about them if no one tells us. My point is this. It took the members at 3ww and .org a long time to find out about Tigers, all we had were pics, just like we have of the '87's, then all of a sudden there are about 4 members on the sites that own them. I'm believeing it might happen with a '87 honda's.


About Honda not changing the 350x motor till '89, They should have done something different with the head before it came out in '85, I can't believe they wouldn't change that.

MR. ATC: what kind of 350x cam journal mods are you running and how much do they cost?

[Black Sheep]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by hrc200x
[B]I'm with atvgolfnut the whole way... wanna a partner in crime? if so talk to me. Cause if infact there is '87 stuff out there I want a piece of it. Many people didn't and still don't know that Tiger's exist. Sure some of you ex racers used to race against them, but how will the rest of us find out about them if no one tells us. My point is this. It took the members at 3ww and .org a long time to find out about Tigers, all we had were pics, just like we have of the '87's, then all of a sudden there are about 4 members on the sites that own them. I'm believeing it might happen with a '87 honda.

your reasoning escapes me just because people that were too young to know of a trike (the Tiger) then all of a sudden found out about it dose not mean its the answere to all ? trikes. just like people think there was a Cagive trike there was not they were conversion kits. if i had know about theses sites years ago you would have seen all this info back then.

now how come were not hering about the 88 250es? if you look at the parts list above you'll see a listing for a 85 ATC500R DOSE THAT REALLY EXIST?

think really hard 87 250R and 350X have never been seen and proven to be. a parts list with incomplete part numbers (sorry but there are 5 #'s missing to be a complete part # ) dose not prove anything

the only place a 87 250R 350X OR ATC 500R and ATC 50 exist are in Honda's possesion. you want to see one move to japan get a job with Honda and prey in your lifetime you'll get the top secrate acces pass you need to get in.

as for your 350X cam journal question i run stock cam journals and use Bel Ray EXL 10w 40 oil and i change it BEFORE it turns a dark brown.

my 400x has a modified 350X head with megacycle needle bearing cam and the head is modified for the bearings as well as valve modifications.

[Bandit_33]

I dont know if anybody brought this up or not or have already seen it but I just read that artical in the articals section called

3&4Wheel Action 01/88 - '81 vs. '86 Honda ATC250R

It states on the first page that some 87 models were sold in Canada and Europe ?

This was out of a January 1988 3/4 wheel magazine??


Now I dunno but why would they print it if it wasnt true?
Also being how it was written in 88 it would be pretty accurate for the time I would guess??

Im just curious??

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang:

[Tecate250]

OOO americans got burned.
jk
I hope i find one.
Ill sell tickets to see it and touch it.

What about the trx 87 motors?
Would both bikes have the same motor.

[ATCRYDER]

TRX engines changes (evolved) after 87 i -believe-....im no expert of the TRX R's so correct me if Im worng, someone.


---Rob

[Merriman]

MR. ATC

Where on 3ww are those pics posted? I've searched before and found nothing. I just want to see some of those old racers. I don't care what site they are on. I'm just curious. Personnaly I think the sites should unite (so-to-speak) to save the trikes from becoming extinct like the dinosaurs.

[Merriman]

Here's an all white 250R.....maybe it's an 87. I doubt it, but I couldn't get over there fast enough to look, he was gone before I could get past the crowd.:( :shrug:

[ATCRYDER]

Actually---that looks more like an 86 350x...:shrug:

[Bandit_33]

I dunno look real real close!!

Looks like an 87 350x ?? :headbang: :thumbsup:

:D

[Bandit_33]

But really here is a quote from that article ! It says and I quote

" In 1986 Honda decided to stop production on the ATC250R becase of unfortunate political and legal reasons and the publics switch to 4 wheelers. But the fact remains the last time you were able to get your hands on a new ATC250R in the United States was in 1986 even though they did sell a few 1987 models in Canada and Europe. "



Now my question is again why would the guy write this if it didnt happen?? Its not like he would have anything to gain by saying it?? Plus it was written in 1988 so its not like its an opinion 10 yrs later it was only 2 yrs after production stoped in the US ?


:headbang: :headbang: :headbang:

Rock on !

[ATCRYDER]

God Bandit...please dont open up the 350X story here!! the R one is enough!!! LOL

Ill tell yuo guys what: Ill get in contact with American Honda and Honda Japan and see what I can this weekend---im ready to make my pages up ont he 87 R & X

Rob

[Merriman]

That was a 250R (look at the size of the radiator scoops) plus there was an all black, and all blue ATC 250r with it.

[ATCRYDER]

Thats a horrible pic:::The scoops look small(er) like on 4 strokes....so that is why It looks like a X to me & not an R.

...but lets nto debate :p :p :p

[84200s/m]

anyone want the specs for an 87 250r from 3 wheelerworld.com
ATC250R Canada Only
Frame number ???
Engine number ???
Engine type 2 stroke, Liquid cooled
Displacement 246 cc
Bore x Stroke 66.0 x 72.0 mm
Compression ratio 8.0 to 1
Compression ??? psi
Transmission speeds 6 speed
Clutch Type Manual
Transmition Oil Capacity ??
Carburetion ?? mm Keihin
Starting system Kick Starter
Fuel capacity ?? gal with .3 reserve ???
Wheelbase 51.0 in
Overall Length 74.6 in
Overall Width ??
Ground Clearance ??
Seat height 29.9 in
Front tire 23.5 x 8 x 11
Rear tires 22 x 11 x 9
Front suspension Hydraulic telescoping forks
Rear suspension Mono shock
Front brake Hydraulic disk
Rear brake Hydraulic disk
Final drive Chain
Dry weight 293 lbs
Approx. retail new ???.??
http://www.3wheelerworld.com/1987HondaSpecpage.shtml

[Black Sheep]

Bandit even Honda of Europe and Canada have said they never got a 87 250R you reading a artical that assumes they were avalible there its that guys opinion not fact

84200, those specs are the same as a 86250R

guys don't take this the wrong way but all of these articals i've seen way back when they came out and i've thouroughly researced it 87 250R's and 350X's never went into production you can dig up all the old preprinted specs, part #'s, and publicity shots you want but thats all you'll find i mean come on there's part 3's for a 85 ATC 500R but you don't see everybody saying they exist do you ? no cuz other then in honda's possesion they don't so get over this 87 250R 350X CRAP

[BGP]

If anyone in Canada has one at all, it HAS to be a backwoods uniligual french speaking internet illiterate Quebec Jean-Guy that left it in a barn back in 1990 and has since moved back to snowmobiling and drinking. Otherwise, we all would have seen some picture(s) by now. This is getting ridiculous.

Not knocking anyone, merely stating what my relatives are like... HA!!!

[CanadianRednex]

If they are floating around we'll probly never hear tell of it. For all we know its sitting behind a barn beating and abused.

BTW, welcome fellow NBer!

[BGP]

If they are floating around we'll probly never hear tell of it. For all we know its sitting behind a barn beating and abused.

BTW, welcome fellow NBer!


Ugh, my heart skipped a beat reading the part about being beat and abused... I can handle sitting in a barn but not abused!

Hahaha!... "CanadianRednex"... that's sum'funny handle.

[Xpress]

My conclusions:

There's at least 50 of them that were ever produced but they were sold to a couple canadians and a few europeans and were never heard of again, and are now sitting inside of sheds collecting dust, and left for their tires to rot.

[NINJA]

There are none out there, end of story. Prove the existence of dark matter in outer space and I'll show you an 87 ATC250R. I guess it's a matter of faith, huh?

[mymint87]

There are none out there, end of story.


OH CHYTE...here too....I just got suckered into one over at .commie

if you wanna read it.... i guess you just hafta search....but bottom line is, nothing personal NINJA, but that mindset is so internet3wheeledcommunity10yearsago its pathetic....if I had my choice (AND I DO) to believe you (whom Im familiar with from 10 years here on the boards)or a ATCfactory rider that Ive known for almost 30 years (ever since he worked at smitty's)....then take a big guess as to who loses and who I believe....LMAO:loser:

[FlyingW]

Lets not discount the possibility that a prototype(s) was sent to the field for evaluation. That would be reasonable. Its the production ones Honda says they never distributed. AHHH, who knows.

[trikenut3]

I've got a crated one in my basement .....I'll bring it to the Invasion .

[FlyingW]

Todd, I guess you picked the wrong time of the week to stop smokin crack!!!!

[trikenut3]

Todd, I guess you picked the wrong time of the week to stop smokin crack!!!!


Seriously , think about all this . Why wouldn't a prototype have been made before the agreement to stop production ? Honda was doing R & D for the next model year . There was no reason to not build the next season's ATC lineup at that time because no agreement to not produce was in effect . If it's like other motorcycles / ATC 's the next year's models are produced over a year in advance and as far as brochures go they print up and throw away so many versions of literature before vehicles come out it isn't even funny . If Honda had the proto done and was satisfied enough to schedule production ; the literature would have already been ready to ship to the dealers .

[FlyingW]

Very true Todd. Like I said, its reasonable. The decision to stop production and halt any distribution was made in a short amount of time. Thats why some 87 models were already sold to Honda-North America and distributed to the dealers. Why the 250R was held back, only Honda knows.

[NINJA]

OH CHYTE...here too....I just got suckered into one over at .commie

if you wanna read it.... i guess you just hafta search....but bottom line is, nothing personal NINJA, but that mindset is so internet3wheeledcommunity10yearsago its pathetic....if I had my choice (AND I DO) to believe you (whom Im familiar with from 10 years here on the boards)or a ATCfactory rider that Ive known for almost 30 years (ever since he worked at smitty's)....then take a big guess as to who loses and who I believe....LMAO:loser:
Like I said, it's a matter of faith. You're putting your faith in what that ex factory rider has told you. I want to believe some got out there, I really do. But the only truly admissible evidence before us is some picture in a Canadian brochure, that's it! There are no magazine or private photos, and nobody has come forward with any "real" proof they've seen or owned one. But I remain hopeful, that something will prove us non-believers wrong.:oldfogey:
In the meantime, I remain firm in my stance on this topic.:thumbsup:

[Trips]

didnt the ban come out Jan 1 1987?

not sure how it was back then, but if its like it is now, people already have delivery on 2011 snowmobiles etc.

So it is possible that some made it out.

Not saying they did, but things are possible.

[ADW3]

I've got a crated one in my basement .....I'll bring it to the Invasion .Do you think the crate will fit in the overhead bins? 'Cuz I doubt that you want to trust it to the baggage handlers if you decide to check it! :shrug: :confused: :shrug:



So just make sure that you don't have over 3 oz. of fluid in that damn thing or you're gonna' have to throw it in that big trash can by the x-ray machines and metal detectors. Wouldn't that SUCK!!! :cry:

http://www.crunchgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/ap_airport_security.jpg




:D :lmao: :D



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