Help, 1981 185s no-start question

[madmax]

My '81 185s cam chain tensioner broke and jumped time. It had no compression to speak of after that (it didnt offer much resistance when I pulled the recoil). So I pulled the engine out of the frame since I suspected a bent valve. I took the head off and the intake valve was just slightly tweaked , the pistion/rings/cylinder looked fine so I left them alone and installed new valves/seals (intake and exhaust) and new timing chain and guide/tesioner. When reassembling the engine I made sure the cam was installed with the lobes at the 4 and 7 O'Clock positions, the cam gear had the "0" in line with the mark on the top of the head/valve cover, and the crank was in the T position in the window. I set the valve lash per my Clymer manual and reinstalled the engine in the frame.

Heres the problem, I try to restart it and it will not start. The engine cranks normally (no odd sounds). It has good compression, it has spark and as far as I can tell it is getting gas (the tank is full, the in-line filter has gas in it and when I open the float bowl drain screw on the bottom of the carb the gas flows out of the tube on to the ground)

Where do I go from here? Help!

Max

[Fuzzy]

It sounds like you did every thing right. Its possable the cylinder is dried out from cleaning it up and having the head off for a periode of time. Try putting a couple drops of oil down the spark plug hole. That will help increas compression and help to make more suction to pull air and fuel into the engine. Doe sit act like it is trying to fire. Do you get any smoke at all out of the exhaust?.

[ATCnut]

When my 82 185s will not start, many times a new spark plug helps. The old one can look good, and I can see spark, but the trike runs with a new plug.

The other thing to try is the drag start. Find someone and something to drag you around on the end of a rope, put the trike in third or forth gear, and see if it starts.

[madmax]

Fuzzy,

No, it dosent even act like it wants to start, no coughing, sputtering or anything, it has good suction and I did oil the cylinder before the head went back on. Thats whats killin' me it dosent make sense.

ATC Nut,

I hadn't thought about the drag idea (I used to do that with my 70 years ago when the recoil spring would break!) I'll give that a try.

Max

[ATCnut]

Since it does not even pop, there is one other thing to try. Starting fluid (ether). Some people swear by the stuff, some people swear at the stuff and will never use it. I use it carefully, it can help.

[madmax]

Hey ATCnut and Fuzzy,

I tried drag starting the trike and it started pretty easily (drug it about 5-10 feet with my riding mower). So I ride it for a little bit and it feels pretty good, I shut it off and try to restart using the recoil and it wont go. So I drag start it again. I'm looking things over as its running and one thing I notice is that when I take the oil filler cap off the crankcase (engine running) there seems to be pressure coming from the filler hole, is that normal? I checked the vent hose that comes out of the back of the crankcase thinking that it might be blocked but its not. I didnt notice pressure coming from the vent hose.

Ideas? Is this normal?

Thanks

[ATCnut]

This may seem wierd, but try a new plug. When you pull the cord, you only really get one compression stroke to start the trike. I have fought my 185s to get it to start over the years, and a new plug usually fixes it. I end up putting about one a year in it.

Another thought, is the choke working?

I have never taken the oil filler off when the motor is running, so I cannot comment on that.

[Fuzzy]

You should notice a little pressure coming out of the crank case. But if you have a lot. Then you are having a lot of blowby. Meaing the rings arnt sealing good. Allowing pressure from the cylinder past the rings and in to the crank case. That is what the tube on the back of the engine is for to vent the crank case. If you have it running and have the dipstick in place. You should be able to feel a little bit of air coming out of that vent hose. If it is really coming out of there it might be time for new rings. Also when you have it running take the cap off of the valve cover and see how much pressure you are loosing at the head. If it is in time and the valves are sealing then there shouldnt be much air loss. But if it is really coming out of there it is possable the new valve isnt seated well and making it hard to suck fuel in. That would explain the having to pull start it to get the rpms up enough to start pulling in fuel.

Did you have the head done at a shop?. When you put the new valve in did you use a valve lapper and lap the valve to make sure it would seal tight?.

Good to hear you at least found i way to get it started.

[madmax]

ATCnut,

The choke is working.
I'll try a new plug.

Fuzzy,

I'll check the valve cap and the crankcase vent.

The head/valves should be fine, I had a machine shop do it and they did lap in the valves.

Since the piston/rings/cylinder looked OK (and it didnt smoke) I decided to leave these alone. If I was getting blow-by wouldnt it smoke?

Thanks

[Fuzzy]

It depends on what rings are worn. If it is the top compression ring. Which it usally is. The bottom oil scrapper ring will still remove oil from the cylinder wall keeping it from not smoking. But the compression rings can still be allowing more blow by then they should. Also when you put the cylinder on did you say you staggered the gaps on the rings to make sure they were all not just in a row letting the pressure go straight down to the crank case. That is a real common problem people over look when putting the cylinder back on.

A compression test would answer a lot of questions. To bad you couldnt get a reading on it.

[madmax]

Fuzzy,

I staggered the rings so that shouldnt be an issue. BTW I fired up my 84 125m and took the oil filler cap off to see what kind of pressure it had in the crankcase and it was spewing like $0.50 beer night at a local bar! If I can find an adapter that will fit my automotive compression gauge I'll take a reading on the 185s and let you know what happens.

Thanks

[Fuzzy]

Ok sounds good. Good luck on it. It sure sounds like it should be starting :shrug:

[madmax]

Fuzzy, ATCnut,

Guess what, I take my wheeler over to a friends place today to do some trail riding and I figure he can drag start me and I'll be good to go... He walks over to the wheeler and gives it a tug and it fires. So here I am standing there looking like a goof so I have him kill it and restart it. It does. I try it and I cant start it. Appearantly the way I used to pull start it wont cut it since the rebuild. I'm short (5'3") so I dont have the height/pull leverage in my favor. To add injury to insult I took a branch in the face when I took a turn too wide! (I need to get a full face helmet) Anyway thanks for all the help/suggestions.

[Fuzzy]

LOL thats great. I am glad you figured it out. It sure sounded like you had every thing right. To bad about the branch in the face:( .