Here you go Kasey 400X suspension pics

[Black Sheep]

sorry for the wait here is a series of pictures explaining how my 400X suspension was built but first i must clarify a few things for you. first the total travel is 11" F+R. i also stated that it sat aprox. 1/2" taller then my relativly stock 85 360X (you incorrectly assumed i meant bone stock 350X) by reletivly stock i mean it is all 350X parts but they have been modified. my particular 85 360X has 1/2" longer travel F+R by way of longer damping rods in forks and a reworked stock shock with "works" internals.

This first pic is the ground clearence of my 85 360X you will see it is 11 1/2" taking away the extra 1/2" your left with 11" not the 9 1/2" you stated

[Black Sheep]

this is the 400X but without the motor once it is put in it will sit lower as the next pic will show

[Black Sheep]

:wtf: try this again

[Black Sheep]

now this next pic is a unscientific test but... here is the same 400X but with my wife putting some weight on the bike to simulate the aprox. 100lbs yet to be put on the trike (88lb. motor plus carb,pipe,ect.) since she only weighs around 125lb and she only has a portion of here weight on there its pretty close.

[Black Sheep]

this next pic is a pic of a modified 350X rear suspension notice the shock mount,angle,and placement

[Black Sheep]

This is the 400X rear suspension notice the differances like shock mount,angle,and placement

[Black Sheep]

here is a stock 350X swingarm and my custom built aluminum 400X swingarm

[Black Sheep]

this is a stock 350X shock (blue spring) and the 400X shock (red spring) notice the longer shock stroke yet same overall lenght also what you can't really tell is how much farther in the shock body the piston travels up

[Black Sheep]

this is the front suspension clearence at 10 1/2" but considering it is sagging 5/8" due to the weight of the trike i'll have the clearance needed. now why did you even ask about this one? when the fork travel is increased thus making the forks longer the wheel is naturally gonna be farther away from the fender. so why did you question the clearence here???

[Black Sheep]

here is a another modification to help keep things low. it may be a small amount but it is the little things like this that seperate a professional job from a backyard job (no disrepect intended to backyard mechanics)

[Black Sheep]

this is another one of those minor improvments that make a big differance 1. you have smaller diameter giving higher ground clearance and also more frame/pipe clearance when bottoming. 2. the aluminum/titanium combination is much lighter then the stock steel setup (1lb of rotating weight is aprox. the same as 7lbs of dead weight) giving less unsprung weight=better suspension action. 3. the 250R rotor in combination with 250R caliper gives it twin piston brakes as opposed to 350X single piston.

[Black Sheep]

this is how it looks when its all together

[ATCRYDER]

:hail: :hail: :hail: :hail:

its sooo beautful :cry: :cry: :cry:


Tell me about that rear rotor? is that one of those "anti-drag" rotors or did you say its off an R?

Rob

[ATCRYDER]

Hey bill--one thing that caught my eye in that 1st pic of the 350x....no fuel filter...whats up with that? Ive got an "in line" filter right now...is it not even worth having?

Rob

[86waterpumper]

nice sock pic :salute: just kidding, hey in that same pic, I notice a zip tie holding something what is that all about?

[Fuzzy]

Very nice :headbang:


How does the handleing differ with the changes?. Dose it ride about the same as stock but just with more ground clearence?. Or does it tend to be kind of bouncy with the added suspension?.

It looks like a nice clean conversion. And i am all for anything that adds ground clearence to these trikes.

[Black Sheep]

Thanks guys,

Rob, on a Honda a in-line fuel filter is a waste of time. Honda's have two fuel filters already one in the gas tank and a second one in the petcock these screens are so fine nothing will get through unless they have been damaged.

William, the zip tie is just holding the brake lever up and out of the way for now. look in one of the other pics you'll see it dangling that was before i zip tied it out of the way

Fuzzy, i can't tell you how it handles right now as i've never riden this complete configuration but i can tell you this the shock is set up very similar to the modified stock shock (the one with the grey spring) and that shock is sweet the small bumps are almost non existing and it takes big hits like they were nothing. as far as comparing it to a stock shock there is no comparison the stock shock is a joke the valving stack has no progession to it all the shims are the same diameter and thickness the only thing that gives you any rate change is the progressive rate spring thats comes stock. all this ends up being a bad set up. about the only way to compare the two is ride a modern day MX bike then get on a 350X with stock shock. both of my shocks are set up similar to a MX bike and feel the same. as a matter of fact the valving stacks are almost identical to the one's i ran in my CR's when i raced MX.

[250sx]

when's it gonna be ready? :D

[Black Sheep]

Well now that the suspension is finalized i have to strip it down to the frame again so i can weld the brackets on for the duel oil coolers im using. they are larger then the stock one and i had to get the front end done before i could start on them. you see i had to worry about turning radius. had i mounted them prior they may have interfered with the forks. once that is done the frame will be repainted (not even sure if it will be red been thinking of Black) and i can put it back together permanantly. probably looking at next spring before its complete. still have about 1500-2000.00 in parts yet to buy there are severall things going on that are top secrate...lol

[86waterpumper]

don't tell me that THAT one is the one you are wanting to turn into the tiger striper :eek:

[Fuzzy]

Originally posted by MR ATC
still have about 1500-2000.00 in parts yet to buy there are severall things going on that are top secrate...lol

Wow can you estimate the total cost of this retrofit. From start to finnish.

[Black Sheep]

just bumping up for kasey and speed's sake

[Mr. Richard]

you know bill you are so hung up on techical bs that you can't even remember the question i posed to you that started all this crap anyway!!!!!!

i never doubted the amount of travel you say that you say you have ,, ever,, but when you add travel something has to change,,,, its simlpe geometery I REPEAT SIMPLE GEOMETERY,,,

in the picture of the 400x i say its 5" taller seat height than a stock 350x,, that would make your other one 4.5 inches taller than a stock 350x right???????? get a tape measure measure to the top of the back of the seat,,,,,,,,, i can tell by the amount of space between the tire and the fender,,, duh:doh:

http://www.3wheeler.org/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=24170

[Black Sheep]

kasey how come you ask a question then don't like the answer.
first of all if i put a stock seat on it would only be 1/2 taller like i said.
second i was comparing it to my 85 350X that had the same seat
third i did not even go by seat hight since i change seats for differant conditions. my measurements were by rear fender and skid plate distances.
fourth since you mention tires look a little closer a stock 350X uses 22" tires the 400X has 20" tires
so if MY 85 350X has 8" of travel and 22" tires
and MY ATC400X has 11" " " 20" tires
there is 2" right there
now you have to relize that the 350X has a shorter shock body then my 400X shock but the overall length is the same. so although the shocks are same length one has more travel but overall length is same.
as far as front forks yes they too have more travel but with less rake so it makes up the differance
i'm sorry you don't like the answer but the 400X only sits 1/2 higher then my 85 350X

[Mr. Richard]

its just to simple for you to understand isn't it......... YOUR WRONG!!!! THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 22" AND 20" TIRES IS 1" ,,,,, and i have seen all the differences that you mention,,,,,, and now your changing all the details opps i mean this seat ohh no not those tires these well i guess i am stupid to think that you could answer a SIMPLE question with a simple answer...

you know like this : yeah thanks, it does set quite a bit higher than a stock 350x cause it has revalved 250r forks , in the rear it is totally redesigned setup with 10 plus inches of travel ,,,,,,

you know that would have done it,,,,,, then probably more detailed questions would have followed,,,,,,,,

BUT OHHHH NO ,,,,, forget it you stupid farmboy ,,i am a race tech certified mechenic and how the hell could you even begin to understand my custom $10,000 rear suspension i got more in that than your whole fleet of junkers!!! thats exactly how you come off and most people that read this crap agree,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Technogeek]

here we go again......Next stop: the fight club(where a majority of these nature of posts end up anyway LOL)

[dads]

Kasey :thumbsup:

[Black Sheep]

kasey...you know what else would have done it...just for you to admit your WRONG, i'm not gonna tell you its sits quite a bit higher then a stock 350X because it dose not i spent severl months working on the suspension to get the travel without the height. i'm sorry if you don't get it or agree but that is the case and 22" ballon tires are not 1" taller then 20" low profile tires. we could argue this forever but here are the simple facts. i built it you did not, i designed it you did not, i met my goal (long travel without gaining much overal height), you did not. you can't admit your wrong here. you once stated a 350X only had 9 1/2" of ground clearance i showed you wrong and you did not admit it. i posted pics of a 350X with 11 1/2" ground clearance and my 400 with 12" ground clearance, but that is not good enough for you. so we all will live with the fact you are arguing about something you can't accept.

[Mr. Richard]

ALXE HEIGHT 1/2 OF 22" IS 11" 1/2 OF 20" IS 10 " LIKE I SAID YOU ARE WRONG ITS IS 1"!!!!!!!!!!

[Technogeek]

i have to aggree with kasey on that one. geometery. its that simple:chuckle:

[Black Sheep]

well no offense technogeek but if you agree then your wrong as well...and i'll soon prove it within days i am borrowing a stock 86 350X and i'll take pics for your guys

[Technogeek]

20" diff between 22" is 1 "

[BIG BAD RED]

why are you guys so fast to jump on everyone to prove them wong when it is just better.....

[Black Sheep]

you should stop thinking about advertised size and think about actual size.

[86waterpumper]

I'll agree with that. Turf tamers run small. My 18" maxxis razrs that I put on my old R look huge in comparion to 18" turfs or fast trekkers.

[Andrew]

its a shame that this 400X has been parted out...:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[drieger1]

I'm not a math whiz but when you think about it and try and figure out the math the diff in overall height between "22 vs 20 should be only "1. I tried to remember how to figure out the math but my brain is not working this morning....I know you have to use 3.14 in the equation :D

Area 314.1592653589793
Diameter 20
Circumfrence 62.83185307179586

Area 380.1327110843649
Diameter 22
Circumfrence 69.11503837897544

Can't figure out the final calculation

I hope I just confused everyone enough

just my .02
:D :booty:

[drieger1]

The movie a beautiful mind. Man he was a whak job


:D :D :D :D :D :D

[$"|"I|\|G|2@?]

lets clear this up...a 22 inch tire will have a 2 inch difference to 20 inch tire when they are set next to each other..a 22 inch tire will only be one inch larger then a 20 inch tire when measured from the axle..therefore a triek wld be ony 1 inch taller

[drieger1]

Thats clears it up much better than using a calulator to prove it.


:headbang: :D

[Mr. Richard]

it has nothing to do with circumfernce you can blow a tire up to way to big,,,,,, here you go!!!! take a stick 20" long the center is 10" right??? now take a 22" stick the center is 11" so i am right!!! its only 1" difference RIGHT????? SO IF YOU WANT TO BLOW THIS WAY OUT OF SHAPE THEN PUT 30 LBS. OF AIR IN YOUR 22' TIRE LIKE EVERYONE DOES THEN I GUESS I WOULD BE WRONG!!!!! :lala: :lala: :lala: :lala:

[drieger1]

Kasey is right!

:lala: :lala: :lala: :lala: :lala: :lala: :lala:

:D :headbang: :D

[Black Sheep]

wow holly F'n ****! your all a bunch of nasa engineers if you belive that one. Kasey what did you tell me about paper facts. your saying everybody's 22" tire is 22" and everybodys 20" is 20". man you just lost more respect dude. try measuring every brand of tire i don't care if its MC/ATC/ car/truck whatever, no two sizes (advertised ) are the same

beam me up scotty there still inventing the wheel here.

[BIG BAD RED]

i agree....my odyessy will be running this weekend...i hope. getting new cdi tonight and some other stuff...it is gunna be awsome

[dave h]

not nasa, lockheed, but i do desgin rockets ;).

kasey is right but id be more worried about your swing arm.

you dont just shove a larger spring in there. when that swing arm angle reaches 45deg, you lost almost 30% of its affectiveness (sin45=70.7%). hit a jump and land with trike nose up at 10deg, that puts about 43% of the force on the pivot bolt, (sin35=57.3%). 43% of about 400lbs falling from 10feet is quite a bit of energy. id put money on it that you wouldnt last 5 or 6 before the bolt took a shi t. if not, something will, and the shock wont feel a thing.

heres a tip, lower the swingarm pivot! youve got plenty of money.


dave

[Mr. Richard]

your saying everybody's 22" tire is 22" and everybodys 20" is 20".

we were talking about your 85 350x with 22" tires and your 400x with 20" tires ,, so now lets change the dimensions of your tires to suit your side of this discussion.....

your 350x 22" tires your 400x 20" tires = 1 " of axle height that means 1" of overall height difference

i can use a tape measure and am smart enough to know about tire sizes being different,, ever buy shoes????? http://www.lamer.net/arguing.jpg

[BIG BAD RED]

ok that pic kix as s...just wait till it is finished and see...i think the manual knows what he is talking about

[dave h]

yea, its a cool lookin trike ill give him that. dig the 400x stickers! actualy i think theyre arguing over something different.

ill communication

dave

[Black Sheep]

Originally posted by dave h
not nasa, lockheed, but i do desgin rockets ;).

kasey is right but id be more worried about your swing arm.

you dont just shove a larger spring in there. when that swing arm angle reaches 45deg, you lost almost 30% of its affectiveness (sin45=70.7%). hit a jump and land with trike nose up at 10deg, that puts about 43% of the force on the pivot bolt, (sin35=57.3%). 43% of about 400lbs falling from 10feet is quite a bit of energy. id put money on it that you wouldnt last 5 or 6 before the bolt took a shi t. if not, something will, and the shock wont feel a thing.

heres a tip, lower the swingarm pivot! youve got plenty of money.


dave

Dave i did not just put a bigger spring on actually just the opposite it's a smaller spring.
the basic triangle of the suspension (top shock mount,lower shock mount, swingarm pivot) are not the same as a stock 350X it is laid down more.
this setup was designed by me, but it was backed up by my consultant ( a motorcycle forensic expert, former air force designer, and M.I.T. graduate to name a few) and works performance (building suspension systems since the 60's) who built the actual shock to my specs.

if your willing to bet against us i'll take that bet

take a look at the swingarm pivot area on the new swingarm in the assembled pic. notice how it has more surface area then the stock swingarm for better weight distribution.

Kasey, measure 22" maxis all tracks at 6lbs psi then 20" turf tammers at 6lbs psi

[Technogeek]

this debate is STILL going?...:doh: :chuckle: :lmao: :loser:

[Mr. Richard]

well its funny,,,,, my two original statements that started this crap have been danced around and denied ,, but never really answered in detail like all this other ,,, so i guess its over for me,,,

[secluded]

i see that you have 250r forks on that, is the hub/rotor/axle for a 250r also? will a 350x rim fit right on a 250r hub?

[Black Sheep]

Hub is 86 250R, rotor is 250R/350X (they are the same), axel is 250R. Wheel 85 350X.

Kasey the whole thread answers your original question:doh: :doh: :doh: