atc70 point conversion?

[dave h]

i asked this before but noone seemed to know. but to they make a point to electronic converson kit for these? i swear, these damn things get sooo dirty so quick its not even funny. im looking but worst comes to worst, ill try to MAKE ONE!! then fail and burn down the house tring.

dave

[Fuzzy]

They make a conversion kit for lawn mowers to switch them from points to electronic. And it is suposed to work on any single cylinder 4-stroke engine. So i couldnt see why it wouldnt work. Maybe check with your local auto parts or lawn mower stores.

[Mr. Richard]

FUZZY YOU ROCK!!!! when i put 2 and 2 together i always get 7!!! i know where i can get one of those conversions too $13 i am going to try it ,,,,, YESSSS

dave i will let you know if it works!!!!

woo hooo off to the parts store i goooooo

[Martin64]

..

[az350x]

Count me in too Kasey! My ATC 70 runs like absolute poopie- I'd rather convert it than screw with new points!:D

Let us know how it works (and how to do it for those of us who are slightly technically challenged)

[dave h]

exactly! i saw that conversion for them too in Northern! its a little silver box with a bolt one hole in the top for mounting. got me thinkin. let me know. ill see if i can rig something up too, but that probley wont happen.


dave

[IronX]

did it work any feed back?? let us know

Iron

[Mr. Richard]

well its in my hand now ,, (the ignition module) so i'll install this week and let you know if it works!!!

[ADW3]

Any luck yet?

[dave h]

yea, whats the deal?

oh and been thinkin...do the new Z50s still have points? if not, you could take the mech and bolt it on to the older 70s right? i mean, the cases are the same and the flywheels and such. well, youd maybe have to drill to mout the starter ring but, still be cool.

the have little electronic boxes that wires go in to now, that they didnt have before thats why i was figuring maybe they finaly changed.

just thinkin
dave

[yamaman]

Have you got a manual for the atc 70 that you could maybe scan the wiring diagram? Or anyone else(was told Kasey was man to ask!)

Relay need this,cheers in advance??:headbang:

[Mr. Richard]

sorry no books ,, i can write it down for you tho ,, when i get home tonight i will do that,,,,,,,

[dave h]

ya know, i had a manual but it covered 90s and 110s too, so i let my friend (aka jackass) borrow it and havent seen it since. thanks for reminding me and ill scan it for you if i get it back in this life time.

i remember it was real simple though. thing doesnt even have lights or a regulartor, but optional places for them.

dave

[hrc200x]

dave h: Were you the one that had a friend that bought a Tiger? If so did you ever get pictures? What kind of shape is it in? How much did he pay for it? Thanks.

[Fuzzy]

Originally posted by dave h
so i let my friend (aka jackass) borrow it and havent seen it since.


:lmao: :chuckle: :D I am glad to know i am not the only one with freinds like that.

[yamaman]

Thanks that would be great,,thanks for your time!!:headbang:

[dave h]

yea...the tiger. well thats a different person than the manual/tool stealer.

i was supposed to go to his house that weekend, many months ago, but he canceled last min. next week he did the same thing so i dont know what the deal with him is. might be liying or i dont know. but why? i dont really care what the hell he has. hes weird like that, always has to prove hes better or making more money or something like that i guess. i dont know. usualy hed have the thing to prove hes better, not just blainty lie. seems pretty random how he picked a tiger. i didnt even know about them until he told me, and he doesnt like, know that kinda stuff, history and special specific things (like underground stuff).

for how it is this is what he told me...

-wouldnt tell me the price, even after i asked him like 10X
-shape is great, light blue plastics and frame.
-"its all there" (whatever the hell thats suppoed to mean, which im sure he doesnt)
-says its really fast, fastest thing hes ever driven, over 250rs, tecates, and even banchees

now how could you say something like that then cancel on a friend? "oh its the fastest thing in the world, gobs of power, but you cant ever drive/touch/look at it." which makes me wonder....

anyway, he lives 6hrs west (pittsburg) so i cant really drop by. dont think hed lie but who knows. havent talked to him since early nov. i swear, if i see it youll be the first guys to know. pics and all

dave

[yamaman]

:cry: Jus bumpin this to top again to see if get any response!!(im desperate lol)

[az350x]

Originally posted by kasey
sorry no books ,, i can write it down for you tho ,, when i get home tonight i will do that,,,,,,,

Did you put the electronics on the 70 yet? I'm watching this thread and can't tell if you're done with it or not...

Let us know the specifics if you're done! Thanks!

[ATC_250SX]

i saw those in northern hydrolics as well i was going to try to put them in my snowmobile but lost intrest there like 11 or 12 bucks each

[dave h]

know what you mean atc250. and something just tells me they wont work, ya know? like, some little disclamer "works on every 4-stoke! (and then in small print) 'except 1983 honda atc70 4speed'."

...or even hondas in general.

dave

[Mr. Richard]

ok, sorry for the delay!!!! i installed the ignition module,,,WELL,,, THE DAM THING KNOCKED ME ON MY A$$!!!! just rolling it over by hand it kicked my butt,,, spark like a cattle prod,,,, wow it started on the first pull too,,,,,, so i can say WOOOO HOOOOO no more points to screw with!!!!!! $14 its worth every penny,,,,,,, easy to put in too the box bolts where the condencer was ,,,,,,

now the bad news it won't work on anything with a centrifical advance on it ,,, so 70's are about all it will work on ,,,, but thats great news for you 70 owners!!!!

[ADW3]

Kasey -

Please tell me where you got this little miracle device, specifically. It's wayyyy past time for new points on my 70 and I would prefer changing to a points-free and hassle-free system to replacing those dam points. You are the KING of the 70's if you made a less-than $20 conversion! Please share with us!!

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang:

[Mr. Richard]

here is the link to the module,,,,,,,,,

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=6970&langId=-1&catalogId=4006970&PHOTOS=on&TEST=Y&productId=11844&categoryId=130


hope it works

[Fuzzy]

Glad it worked out. Too bad about the advance i never thought of that.

Good job Kasey:headbang: :headbang:

[ADW3]

:hail: :hail: :hail: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Kasey!

[dave h]

yes! thank god! question though, do you have to modify or disconnect your stator or something?

thanks again our lord kasey,
dave

[Mr. Richard]

its toooo easy, take both wires off the top of the condencer tie them together with the blue wire off the module ground the white wire off the module,,, throw the points and condencer away!!!! its that simple,,,,, i can't believe it either,,,,

the only concern i have is timing,, it starts up sounds great , seems to run good but i haven't had it out and rode it hard to see what happens ,,, it says that the module auotmaticly sences the correct timing,,, i guess it is that smart,,,,,,

[ATC_250SX]

well i was talking to my father about one of those and he had just put one in an old sears and rubbish tractor, it was a 16 horse opposed twin. the thing runs great with it, and i didnt notice it didn't work on 2 strokes. but it wouldent work anyway my sled has a timing advance. but good luck with them guys seems like you cant go wrong hassle free.

[az350x]

Originally posted by kasey
its toooo easy, take both wires off the top of the condencer tie them together with the blue wire off the module ground the white wire off the module,,, throw the points and condencer away!!!! its that simple,,,,, i can't believe it either,,,,

the only concern i have is timing,, it starts up sounds great , seems to run good but i haven't had it out and rode it hard to see what happens ,,, it says that the module auotmaticly sences the correct timing,,, i guess it is that smart,,,,,,

So Kasey- have the kids put a few hours on it yet? How's it working so far? Any problems???
Sorry if I'm staying on you about this, but I want to know of any possible problems before I do it to mine (because UNdoing it may not be that easy for me!):)

[Unregistered]

inquiring minds are dying to know sounds great thanks for the info :)

Iron

[IronX]

sorry bout the lame post above guys :( I just wanna know how it ends...

Iron

[ATC_250SX]

you were worng it will fit a two stroke. "Electronic Ignition Unit Replaces Points and Condenser
Fires small engine spark plug 5 to 14 times with each impulse. Fits most 2 and
4-cycle, air-cooled engines. Maintenance-free. About the size of a quarter."-NOHERN TOOL
Maby they will go in my sled.

[dave h]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20544&item=2301548010&rd=1

boom! got me one!

dave

[jenndnn3]

Bumped to the top for my personal use:D and so I dont have to search anymore....

Oh and didnt you do a thread with picts??? where the heck is it....I am sick of points, and in absolute shock on how much these little 70's depend on them......

[dave h]

im teling you, best thing ever for atc70.

just splice a line into the little wire that comes out of the stator coil, BEFORE it ties in with the points, then connect it to positive side of module. then connect negative side of module to ground. THATS IT!

the machine really runs great with it, despite how sloppy the mechasim is for how it gives spark randomly.

it will work on machines with advances, but will only allow it to run up to about 3 or 4k rpm before it starts sputterin. :mad:

also, you might want to put a rectifier in there, beacuse at higher rpms, the stator will put out more voltage and funny things might happen to your coil or chip. i think thats what happend to me in the drag race. BUT, it might just be that i had a coil that was on its way out :shrug:

oh, and a tachometer wont work with this set up :mad: :mad: :mad:

dave

[madmax]

Does anybody happen to have pics of the install?
Dave, Kasey?

Also, how do you adjust base timing on a 70?

[dave h]

well i didnt instal the chip where the points are for two reasons,

a: not proper ventalation, which i think would melt it down there.
b: because it wouldnt fit by a hair!

i posted a pic of what it looked like earlyer. i just make a hopper out of sheet metal with a big hole and small hole and bolted it right next to the coil. so theres really no "breaker" unit near the flywheel, but it worked amazing still. its all in the randomness of the transistors in the chip.

its simple. all you do is cut the wire that goes between the points and stator wrap ignition side (side on the bottom or with skinnyer wrap. the other side is for lighting) then tie the black wire thats already on the bike to it. simple! just imagine you cutting out the points and making a stright connection to black wire.

then, outside of the motor, splice another wire from the black wire, and connect it too the positive side of the unit (side with + on it :doh: ) then simply connect the negative side to the ground of the bike.

then your set to go! thats it! and when it did run, it started FIRST pull everytime and idled quiet, consistant, and forever. MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A GOOD COIL because mine f-ed up and i thought it was the chip, so i broke it in a blind rage :mad: . turns out the coil was just crap.

as for adjusting the timing you cant. you cant with the points either so it doesnt matter. most small bikes are like that because they usualy dont have huge expactations of be comming a racer or anything. its to make it simpler. most dont even have advance, besides the ct70h and sl70 and maybe some other higher end 70s. general rule, simple = reliablity and complexity = performace.

however, there is a chip that you can adjust the timing on (mini screw on the chip) but its a pretty rare item so ill say the name in about a week when the auction im looking at closes ;) .

dave

[dave h]

ok, heres the requested pic with new msd coil (supposedly) and point thing. had to dig out this so YOU ARE WELCOME. ;)

[jenndnn3]

I put mine above my airbox......wanna see??

[jenndnn3]

oops forgot the pict...stupidme:doh:

[dave h]

cool jen! didnt fit in the flywheel either eh? thats actualy a better place to put it because the coil actualy puts off and magnetic field that could the cause the transistors to occilate.

now only if the flywheels were easyer :doh:

dave

[ATCnut]

Another reason to put the chip outside and not under the flywheel is if the chip ever fails, you do not have to pull the flywheel to replace it.

[jenndnn3]

Yeah yeah what ATcnut said....never pull flywheel...yeah i like that idea...yeah yeah...:yup: :yup:

[dave h]

jen, was thinkin i sould tell you that for a few years, every company used the same flywheel, becasue they all contracted hitachi to make the genators for them.

so a yamaha dt175 enduro, suzuki fa50 moped and honda c70 all can swap flywheels. there are many more than these too, i think even a blaster flywheel would work but youd have to see.

this is a general statement but for the most part, if the back spacing and shaft size is the same itll fit. other than that the point cam is the same for all, magnets are timed the same as well.

also, there is a different flywheel for a ct70. ive seen one go up a while ago but havent seen it in a while. i think it was only one year, but it looks completely different. its steel coated with a zinc coating and has 4 large oval holes instead of the common aluminum with 2 small oval like holes.

ill show what it looks like when i find one.

just a thought,
dave

[Technogeek]

dave you are probably thinking of the ct 70 h fly wheel that model of 70 was a 4 spd manual clutch.

[dave h]

im not really sure. the ct70h flywheels have an advance but it didnt look like the steel one did. who knows....another factor is ebay listings arent actualy what the part is :rolleyes: . lots of help isnt it.

id just randomly trying flywheels. lots still wont fit, but theres quite a bit out there that will.

dave

ps, was looking another buddies z50 crank (not neighbor but older model, 1980) and it looked identical to 85 atc70 crank, not at 1980 atc70 crank like youd think. :doh: will the madness ever stop?

[jenndnn3]

LOL......I superglued mine:doh: :headbang: ;)

[Technogeek]

Originally posted by dave h
im not really sure. the ct70h flywheels have an advance but it didnt look like the steel one did. who knows....another factor is ebay listings arent actualy what the part is :rolleyes: . lots of help isnt it.

id just randomly trying flywheels. lots still wont fit, but theres quite a bit out there that will.

dave

ps, was looking another buddies z50 crank (not neighbor but older model, 1980) and it looked identical to 85 atc70 crank, not at 1980 atc70 crank like youd think. :doh: will the madness ever stop?
dave i wnnt to a boat show a couple of weeks ago and on the 2.5 hp honda outboard it had a adaptor for the lights connection to run from the alternator in the outboard and that adaptor was exactly the same as the bigred 12v dc accessory terminal adaptor. btw the bigred one only comes as a hole assy. wihic is expensive but i could order one from honda marine cheaper. it is part 8

[dave h]

:eek: wow even boat motors! just shows ya how cheap (aka smart) those japs really were.

thanks for posting tech! itll show people that im not the only one who can swap parts from different machines (identical parts really) and still have them work.

maybe thisll open there eyes. :bash:

dave

[dave h]

perfect example....check out the flywheel in the auction.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=35572&item=2423158983

its a kawasaki 125.

dave

[Technogeek]

dave we all nedd to work togther to make a list of parts that will swap between models including 2-3 wheeler parts and 4-3 wheeler parts ect.:thumbsup:

[RacerRichie]

Nice thread thank you. GOOD INFO